Propagunda vs Truth

[jimmy the one]

Politifact rated 130 'gun claims' from both sides & neutrals I suppose, & the results are as expected, the gun lobby lies more & relies on deceptive propaGUNda far more (since 'honest' or inadvertent errors will arise from all input).
.... a 'half true' rating does not equate to a 'half truth' to deceive, just means about half the basis was factual, the other half inaccurate.

Rating .... Gun control opponents ....Gun control supporters .. april 2013
True ..................17%................... 20%
Mostly True ........16...................... 38
Half True ............. 22 ...................30
Mostly False.......... 7 .................... 3
False ..................24 ...................... 8
Pants on Fire .......14 ........................2
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/apr/07/how-claims-about-guns-often-miss-target/

Dismissing 'half true' results akin to a push, the remaining results are basically True & mostly true vs False & mostly false, giving the following results:

Gun Control Advocates tell mostly+ the truth 81.7% of the time (58/71)
Pro Gun zealots tell mostly+ the truth 42.3% of the time 33/78.
Ergo, Gun Control advocates won this survey by telling the truth twice the rate of gunnuts.

Gun control side mostly+ false approx. 18% of the time
Gunnuts mostly+ false approx. 58% of the time, three times more the rate, when discounting half true results.

Including half true results but disregarding them & using strict percents:
Gun control advocates tell mostly+ the truth 58% of the time, while mostly+ lying 13%.
Gunnuts tell mostly+ the truth 33%, while mostly+ lying 45%, nearing half the time!

Either way they look at it, gunnuts lose the credibility survey.

Politifact: .... when politicians or groups make claims about current laws being insufficient -- a common tactic for gun control supporters -- they often earn Half True ratings because they leave out important details or take things out of context. By contrast, claims about the Obama administration's plans for gun control, often made by people and groups opposed to gun control, typically earn a False or Pants on Fire.

[bobclark86]

1. 80% bullshit < 83% bullshit

Not by, well, a lot, but 3 percentage points less bullshit.

Here's what to take away from this: The facts of gun violence in this country are bad enough. You don't have to make crap up to prove your point.

[jimmy the one]

2. ad hominem with no counter argument from bob

bobclarke: The facts of gun violence in this country are bad enough. You don't have to make crap up to prove your point.

Would you post exactly where I made something up in my OP? be specific, since I used politifact's figures & results to formulate my hypotheses.
Thanks.

Clarke: 80% bullshit < 83% bullshit
Not by, well, a lot, but 3 percentage points less bullshit.

80% of an undefined measure does not necessarily equate to less than 83% of an undefined measure, they're simply relative terms. If you're speaking comparatively then ok, but it doesn't then make sense in context with my OP.
.. ie: 80% of 500 lbs bs = 400 lbs bs
...... 83% of 100 lbs bs = 83, & of course 400 is not less than 83.

Are you pro gun? could explain things. If so, please go away.

[bobclark86]

3. Ad hominum? Huh?

I didn't mean YOU as in the guy (guessing) posting under "jimmy the one" made it up, I'm saying the people making the claims that are 80 percent at least partly fake make crap up (the proverbial "You&quot . I do apologize if that's how it came out.

Let's start again, shall we?

First, some real facts (there's plenty to choose from, but I'll go with stuff from this year just to get the ball rolling):
--FBI: Active Shooter Events from 2000 to 2012
--Guns To Surpass Car Accidents As Leading Cause Of Deaths Among Young People

The facts are pretty clear: Things suck as far as gun violence go. You agree with that, or you wouldn't be here.

Now, back to what I posted (which was what you posted, originally)

"Rating .... Gun control opponents ....Gun control supporters .. april 2013
True ..................17%................... 20%"

That means 83 and 80 percent, respectively, were at least partly bullcrap.

And here's my point: When the facts already are pretty bleak and do a good job proving a point, the "proverbial you" doesn't need to lie, distort or make things up to prove "your" point. It's just giving the opposition more, for lack of a better term, ammo when they figure it out. I feel the same way when people criticize the president: Republicans can say what they want about not stopping the NSA -- something the president actually had a choice about -- but it's hard to take someone seriously when they call him a, as I've heard him called, a Commie-Kenyan-Nazi-Muslim. Now I get to mock the old guy who said it and I have a new insult for my coworkers (calling someone "not spongeworthy" just doesn't have the same cultural effect anymore).

[jimmy the one]

4. thanks for explaining, but...

bob: Now, back to what I posted
"Rating .... Gun control opponents ....Gun control supporters .. april 2013
True ..................17%................... 20%"

Well cutting you some slack, but you left off some of the evidence against the gunnuts:

.................. gunnuts ............ gun control
True ..................17%................... 20%
Mostly True ........16...................... 38

When both 'true' results & 'mostly true' results are factored in, is where you get gun control arguments being more right 58% of the time compared to only 33% of the time for gunnutted crowd, close to twice as factual or true for gun control.

bob: That means 83 and 80 percent, respectively, were at least partly bullcrap.

Boo, you're lopping off too much critical info, when you equate 'mostly true' with 'mostly false', as defining 'partly bullcrap'.
Akin to equating someone saying 'mostly true' things, with another who says 'mostly false' things. Boo.

[bobclark86]

5. You completely missed my point.

Our national record of gun violence is atrocious. There is no need to spout old, outdated information or leave things out, the "mostly true" or "partly true" claims.

Besides, in this kind of argument, it's nice to hold the high ground by not needing to make crap up, like the oft-spouted 2 million defensive gun uses a year I've been bashed over the head with for 20 years. We, and I mean you, I, and the others who feel the way we do, are better than that. I don't see how telling the truth is so difficult.