Pending approval as a host for this group I'd like to introduce myself.

[flamin lib]

I have a Federal Firearms License for Curio and Relic firearms. To get this license I had to apply to the BATF&E and wait while they, the FBI, Texas DPS and my local Police Chief did a background check. It took three months and was no hardship regardless of what some say.

I currently own seven rifles and one pistol, all designed prior to the turn of the 20th century. Most of them I have not fired. They are all secured in a locked gun safe bolted to the wall with the ammunition secured in a secondary location. I typically have 100 rounds of ammunition for each of the two types of rifle because that's how military surplus bullets are sold. I also have four other guns in storage for others. I offered my 12 year old grandson $20 if he could lay hands on a gun and ammunition in 24 hours. He couldn't do it but I gave him the $20 anyway because of the piece of mind it bought me.

I haven't laid hand or eye on any of these guns in over a year. In a typical year I might take one or two to the hunting property while visiting my brother, an avid hunter. Been doing this for more than a decade and have successfully avoided shooting anything so far. I do enjoy target shooting and am able to make 2 inch groups at 100 yards without a telescopic sight. Not bad for 66 year old eyes. I don't practice much, once it becomes muscle memory it never goes away.

I had two semi automatic pistols but in January of 2013 I had them destroyed as per BATF&E instructions. After watching 6 hours of live coverage of the Sandy Hook on CNN and MSNBC with a three year old in my lap I came to the conclusion that there is no justification for civilian ownership of semi auto weapons with removable magazines because the ability to kill with them is only limited by the physical strength to carry ammunition. December 14 is burned into my memory.

I donate to Everytown For Gun Safety and Sandy Hook Promise.

So what does this make me?

2 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	A gun nut.
	0 (0%)
	Confused.
	0 (0%)
	Just another hobbyist.
	2 (100%)
	Unfit to host this group.
	0 (0%)
	Monkey pants.
	0 (0%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[GGJohn]

1. I voted just another hobbyist.

But I do disagree with you on the semi auto statement.

[randys1]

26. Why do you need semi-autos?

[GGJohn]

28. Why do I have to have a need?

When was the Dept. of Needs established? Why do I have to tell you why I have a need?

[randys1]

29. GIven their existence leads to so much death and destruction, are you saying you can have it

solely because you want to, no matter the damage done by it's existence?

Do you need or want a bazooka?

Or are you going to tell me when that psychopath Scalia wrote "Heller" he didnt include them?

Why is this debate only going on here? Why are so many civilized countries evolved so much more than us on this?






NRA

and the gun manufacturers is why

IMHO

[GGJohn]

30. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying,

I can have it solely because I want to and can legally own as many as I want, that's all the justification I NEED.
Also, the AR-15 is a great modular platform, it can be adapted for many uses, hunting, target shooting, competition shooting, self defense.

[randys1]

31. BAzooka?

btw

your response in light of all the harm done by the guns is sickening

[GGJohn]

32. Why the hell would I want a bazooka?

I have no want or need for one.
And I don't care if you think my response is sickening, your opinion is meaningless to me.
I now leave this group because I'm quite sure my name will be added to the blocked list.

[kioa]

34. Why do you NEED a right to religion?

Why do you NEED the right to a jury trial?
Why do you NEED the right to a warrant to listen in to your phone calls?

Rights have nothing to do with 'need'.....

[Starboard Tack]

2. It makes you supremely qualified to host this group.

Your post should be an inspiration to gun owners everywhere.

[dumbcat]

4. My thoughts also. nt

nt

[Bjorn Against]

3. You sound like a true responsible gun owner, unlike those in the NRA and our very own gungeon

I don't worry about people like you owning guns. I do not trust the murder advocates in the NRA and the gungeon with guns however, and I do not apologize for calling them murder advocates because that is what they are. They were all over this site and across the internet justifying the murder of Trayvon Martin, they can try all they want to pretend it was not murder but it clearly was. They advocate using deadly force for the most trivial of offenses, many of them advicate killing people over minor property crimes, they stretch the definition of self defense to the breaking point and then pretend that the deadly use of "self defense" is something to celebrate.

I don't worry about people like you having guns, those that advocate shooting people like Trayvon Martin however are dangerous and I do think their ownership of guns is a threat to us all.

[kioa]

12. Do you support taking away his current right of owning other kinds of rifles?

If so, can you describe or list the rifles that are currently legal to own, he should be banned from owning?

[Bjorn Against]

15. First of all I never said anything about taking away his rights, second you are in the wrong group

This is not the gungeon, I am not going to engage you any further if you plan on promoting guns in this group.

[kioa]

17. Do you support the AWB?

If so then you, in fact do support taking away his (and every other innocent American's) right.

"I am not going to engage you any further if you plan on promoting guns in this group"
I never 'promoted guns', but if I did you would apparently be perfectly fine with it so long as I supported the exact same policies you do
In fact, you would apparently be open to making me a host.

[Bjorn Against]

18. This thread is not about the Assault Weapons Ban, and no I am not open to making you a host

I don't necessarily support the exact same policies as flaming lib, but I can tell when a person genuinely cares about stopping gun violence. I am fine with flaming lib being a host even if we don't agree on everything, but I would never be open to making you a host because it is clear you do not support the goals of this group.

[flamin lib]

5. I had to delete the GD thread because it raised the ire of Gungeoneers and I couldn't see any of the

replies from my ignore list. It was going down hill fast. Didn't want a lock.

[Electric Monk]

6. sarisataka has continued it in the RKBA group

Your original GD thread, for reference

and

Reply to flamin lib from GD in the RKBA group.

[flamin lib]

7. Well, it can just stay there.

Didn't call me a liar? I "seem" to own guns with the emoticon?

Nope, not engaging. It's called passive aggressive.

[Fred Sanders]

9. Seeing the response to your posts in that thread....you are welcome to host...my sympathies.

[hunter]

8. Guns are among my least favorite tools.

That doesn't mean I'm unfamiliar with them.

If it's true the muscle memory never goes away, well, I haven't tested that for a long time and I'd rather not.

I know, and I'm related to, a few wartime snipers. I know, and I'm related to, a few military medics, both older than me and younger than me. I reached 18 years in a sweet time, no draft, and no war. One of my grandfathers was an Army Air Force Officer during World War II, my other grandfather was a pacifist who chose to build Liberty and Victory ships over prison. My dad and my father in-law just missed hot war in Korea.

My dad never had to declare his disdain for shooting people, but my father-in-law, a few years older, did. So they made him a medic. They also made him a guinea pig in nuclear weapons testing. He witnessed an atomic bomb blast up close from a trench, experiencing the initial flash as it passed through the back of his head and eyes tightly closed, and then he marched across ground zero shortly after. Later they discarded their radioactive boots and clothing and scrubbed themselves free of radioactive fallout in field showers.

No problem.

I've been in quite a few rough and life threatening situations that wouldn't have been improved if I'd pulled out a gun. Once the guns are out everything is FUBAR. More guns, even in "responsible" hands, will not improve the situation. What we want to do as a society, and as civilized individuals, is to deescalate these rough situations long before the guns come out.

I'll eat game hunters serve me, but I'm not inclined to hunt myself. If my family was hungry, then yes, I would. I occasionally eat domestic meat, so I'd be a hypocrite to oppose sustainable hunting. Historically my family were cattle ranchers and dairy farmers. I've got a niece who raises goats for dairy products and meat, and other relatives who bring beef to your table. Even more relatives who keep chickens for eggs and chicken soup. Every one of my great grandmas did that. I used to watch in awe as they turned birds, small mammals, or fish into dinner faster than I could comprehend the movements of the knives they held. I'd manage to skin and gut one fish, and they'd already be frying the rest of the fish for everyone else.

I'm not inclined to collect old firearms, but the things I do collect seem odd to most people, including my wife. Among my favorites are old cameras and old random photographs and postcards I find in thrift stores.

[flamin lib]

11. Was a "sniper" when the Army didn't have a sniper program

1970 In Washington DC during the Moritorium. Code name lethal button. It's the prize you win for being on the commanding general's rifle team. Somebody came to their senses and shut the thing down.

Insanity by any description.

[Hoyt]

10. Would like to see you as host. I agree completely with your position on semi-auto guns.

Restricting them, even if just restricting number one can own, would go a long way to cooling off the proliferation of guns here, and the tragic results which gunners want us to just accept.

[kioa]

13. How so? Rifles are one of the least used murder weapons.

Knives are used in 6 times more murders.
Bare hands in twice as many.
Even clubs, hammers, etc. are used in more.

"Assault Weapons" are but a mere subset of rifles.

Your fears are irrational.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls#disablemobile

[Hoyt]

14. Heard it all before.. And it is no reason to allow proliferation of gunz.

[kioa]

16. You don't "allow" any right.

Just as a anti-abortionist doesn't get to decide whether to "allow proliferation of abortion".

Don't like abortions?
Don't have one.
Don't like guns?
Don't have one.
In either case, no one should be able to infringe on other people's rights.

[Hoyt]

19. So now we are going from, guns are fine because people get killed by knives, to

your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment as the reason to allow more gunz.

[kioa]

33. I don't think you have any cause in insisting that any innocent American should give up ANY right to

your irrational fears
AND I don't think your 'solution' is effective.

AND I'm sick of your irrational fears kicking the shit out of the Democratic Party.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

[Hoyt]

35. Clearly, gunz are important to you.

[GGJohn]

37. Predictable Hoytism. eom

[billh58]

20. GCRA Statement of Purpose:

"Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment. The group serves as a safe haven in which to mobilize supporters in support of measures reducing gun violence by changing laws, culture and practice at the municipal, state, and federal levels. While there is no single solution to the tragic epidemic of gun violence, members agree that more guns are not the solution to gun violence, and are expected to be supportive of the policies of progressive gun control reform organizations."

This Group was founded because the NEED for gun control has been well established, and that old debate with right-wing gun nuts can continue in more appropriate venues. This Group's principles are to rationally discuss (among gun control supporters) measures which can be implemented to reduce the gun violence epidemic which plagues this nation, and makes us number one in gun-related deaths in the civilized world.

When flaming lib and Electric Monk are appointed as Hosts, maybe we can return to that important discussion. In the meantime, we will just have to ignore the right-wing gun nut disruptors as best we can.

[Electric Monk]

21. The first thing I'm going to do is add some names to the blocked list. At least three, so far. nt

[flamin lib]

22. I'm with you there. nt

[billh58]

24. Thanks n/t

[billh58]

23. I'm willing to bet

that those "names" are reincarnations of some already on the list who have been banned from DU.

[flamin lib]

25. Ironically I can't see any of the responses to the GD crosspost and only one

of the offensive posters in this thread. I may have to un-ignore my bad list to do this job.

Its a sacrifice I'm willing to make . . .

[leftofcool]

27. makes you a smart person and a responsible gun owner.

[kioa]

36. As someone on the other side of the fence on this issue...

Allow me to offer my $0.02....
1) Saying you are a gun owner that supports infringing on the gun rights of innocent Americans impresses me as much as an owner of a cell phone supporting the Patriot Act.
2) I can assure you a supporter of gun rights wouldn't have to ask if it was OK to be a host.....
Nor would a gun rights supporting group on Democratic Underground ban anyone that supports a contrary view.

That's the thing.....we true liberals just can't help ourselves from being inclusive!

[flamin lib]

38. Owning a gun may be a right,

but owning some particular kind of gun is not. Gun nuttery is not a right. Even ligitamate gun ownership is not an unlimited right.

Please read the SOP for this group and see how far you want to push your luck here.

[kioa]

40. Being able to own guns you want to ban IS a current right.

You seek to infringe on the rights of innocent Americans, whereas I seek to protect them.

I am very comfortable with our respective positions.

[flamin lib]

43. It is NOT a right. It's a current privilege that can and has been prohibited.

There are a lot of banned weapons and a lot of severely restricted weapons.

You clearly misunderstand "right".

Your stay will be clearly short term, so keep touting the NRA talking points while you can.

Please read the SOP for this group and continue on your current path or not.

[flamin lib]

45. I repeat, to own some particular type of gun IS NOT A RIGHT.

Scalia specifically said so in a Fox News interview. Repeating a falsehood does not change its status as a falsehood.

I choose to not respond to you again, here or elsewhere. Go peddle your gun fetish elsewhere. I suggest the RKBA echo chamber.

Bubye.

[kioa]

46. 1) Dictionary definitions aren't falsehoods.

You are trying to take rights from innocent Americans....but I can see why you try to deny your position; it is shameful.

2) You do realize that you bragged about banning anyone from "castle bansalot" that doesn't hold your viewpoint on this issue? That's the definition of an 'echo-chamber'
'Self-awareness'-You may want to look into it.

When you wish to leave this echo-chamber of your own making you are welcome to try and present your viewpoints at RKBA.
I hope to see you there.
After all, what would the Harlem Globetrotters be without the Washington Generals?

[Paladin]

39. Yeah, there's that "true liberals" label---as usual, an indicator of conservative inclinations.(nt)

[kioa]

41. Oh sure.

Conservatives just love to call themselves "liberal", amirite?

Great argument.
Really.

[Paladin]

42. Then refer to yourself as a liberal, rather than a "true liberal." Problem solved. (nt)

[billh58]

47. He really, really tried to pull off

the "Liberal" ruse, but his trollishness caught up with him, and he was sent a pizza.

[jimmy the one]

48. dissection

flaming lib quals: Federal Firearms License for Curio and Relic firearms... I currently own seven rifles and one pistol, all designed prior to the turn of the 20th century. Most of them I have not fired.

So I presume most all of these are bona fide collectibles, or relics, & you don't have them on pedestals in your living room, or unsecured elsewhere. Eh, not a disqualifier I guess.

They are all secured in a locked gun safe bolted to the wall with the ammunition secured in a secondary location.

Bravo. Dismiss concern expressed in my previous sentence.

I typically have 100 rounds of ammunition for each of the two types of rifle.. how military surplus bullets are sold.

Eh, not disqualifier the way you explain it, but I didn't use that much ammo in 20 years of gun ownership (22 rifle & 12 ga sg), except for maybe 200 rds birdshot for skeet a couple years (till novelty quickly wore off). I'd shoot the rifle into soft ground once a year to make sure it still worked, Point blank I never missed the good earth.
PS, been gunfree over 15 yrs now, oh what a feelin, dancing on the ceiling.

I also have four other guns in storage for others. I offered my 12 year old grandson $20 if he could lay hands on a gun and ammunition in 24 hours. He couldn't do it but I gave him the $20 anyway because of the piece of mind it bought me.

Since you're a dealer you get a pass. Benny of the doubt you're honest.

I haven't laid hand or eye on any of these guns in over a year.

Bravo Zulu. You too could be dancing on the ceilin' if this keeps up.

In a typical year I might take one or two to the hunting property while visiting my brother, an avid hunter. Been doing this for more than a decade and have successfully avoided shooting anything so far.

I'm thinking blackmail might work well for me here.

I had two semi automatic pistols but in January of 2013 I had them destroyed as per BATF&E instructions. After watching 6 hours of live coverage of the Sandy Hook on CNN and MSNBC with a three year old in my lap I came to the conclusion that there is no justification for civilian ownership of semi auto weapons with removable magazines because the ability to kill with them is only limited by the physical strength to carry ammunition.
I donate to Everytown For Gun Safety and Sandy Hook Promise.

Final judgement: Thumbs up, by a goodly margin.

[flamin lib]

49. Thanks for the props.

One minor correction tho; I am not a dealer. I cannot sell guns except to "upgrade my collection". BATF&E has no firm rules on what that means. I guess it's like porn, know it when you see it. I sold one to my brother because it had mis-matched serial numbers and a cracked stock. He converted it to a sporting gun so the flaws were unimportant to him. I kept all the records on dispersal of the inventory for the BATF&E.

All that said Monk and I have decided that there is no need for a second (active) host. I'm really good with that as it lets me be a bit more . . . abrupt? . . . with the trolls who show up here.