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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 01:01 PM Mar 2015

The state of the debate.

Every time the topic of gun violence in America comes up the pro gun response is “the homicide and crime rate is down from (some date in the past)”. It makes no difference that the homicide rate in the U.S. is the highest in any first world industrialized country, 6 times that of Canada and 12 times that of number 3 contender for gun deaths per capita. The response is always the same, crime is down and homicides are down. There is no problem. I call this the “flu argument”. I don't have the flu but if I do it's much better today than yesterday. Yesterday my fever was 104 and I threw up nine times, today it's only 102 and I've thrown up only five times. See? All better. Not a problem. And I don't have the flu anyway. Having fever and throwing up is just the price to be paid for freedumb and liburty.

This argument also conflates lenient gun laws to lower crime rates as if there is causation. Lots of guns and crime rates are down ergo more guns caused the crime rate to fall. There can be no other cause for decreased crime. This I call the “elephant in the yard argument”. I have four bird feeders in my yard and there are no elephants around, ergo bird feeders keep elephants away. It's as plane as the nose on my face.

It's sad but this is the level of debate with the pro gun segment.

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The state of the debate. (Original Post) flamin lib Mar 2015 OP
Smoke and mirrors billh58 Mar 2015 #1

billh58

(6,641 posts)
1. Smoke and mirrors
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 01:26 PM
Mar 2015

and a large portion of fear of boogeymen is all the right-wing gun lobby has. Crime rates are down - period. This naturally includes homicides, but 65% of ALL homicides in America are by gun, and as you note our homicide rate is many times the first-world average.

There are several reasons for the declining overall crime rate, but guns are not among them.

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