Basketball
Related: About this forumSteph Curry was asked if his 2017 Warriors team could beat...
Last edited Wed Jan 12, 2022, 01:59 PM - Edit history (2)
Michael Jordan's 1996 Bulls team. He answered "yes" in six games.
The Dubs five was: Curry, Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala and Drymond Green.
The '96 Bulls were: Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Toni Kukoc, Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper.
I go with the Warriors.
What say you all?
And should we also throw in the '80s show time Lakers and the Bird/Parrish/McKale Celtics of the same era?
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WA-03 Democrat
(3,267 posts)Kevin Durant would be the difference. Jordan is slightly better than Curry but Curry is a better leader and point guard. 2017 Warrior by a hair in 6 games.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)What planet are you living on?
we can do it
(12,774 posts)
bahboo
(16,953 posts)Casady1
(2,133 posts)
OAITW r.2.0
(28,361 posts)Ainge, Johnson, Parrish, McHale, and Bird
brush
(57,471 posts)should be added to this discussion along with the show-time Lakers of that same era.
As a matter of fact, I will add them to the OP.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)and Walton was the greatest passing center of all time.
bahboo
(16,953 posts)Casady1
(2,133 posts)were shot.
JT45242
(2,886 posts)It really depends on how they 'interpret the rules'.
If they allow the hand checking and holding that the Bulls used to slow down shooters like Reggie Miller, then the Bulls could win. I could also see Rodman pulling a LeBron James and getting Draymond to retaliate so that Draymond would get suspended.
If they do not allowing holding and hand checking of the ball, the Bulls would not be able to score enough to overcome the three point shooting edge of the Warriors (assuming no Draymond suspensions).
The Bulls could defend with 90s rules, not sure how they would play in the don't breathe on guys rules off the modern NBA.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)I think Curry is the greatest shooter ever but Jordan is at least 3" taller and faster and quicker that Curry. Jordan is the greatest physical specimen to ever play the game. Harper and Jordan would score at will against Curry. Rodman is a better rebounder and more physical than Draymond.
JT45242
(2,886 posts)They are both exceptional defenders.
Draymond is analogous to a young rodman who could guard any position.
If Iggy could shut down LeBron, he could contain Jordan.
ProfessorGAC
(69,854 posts)In fact, Payton is a consensus top 10 defender ever.
Jordan's career PPG against the Sonics & Pistons was 32 & 33. His career average was about 31.
Those all-time great defensive players couldn't stop him. Why would Iggy or Green?
Admittedly, his FG% against Detroit was lower than his career average, but many of those games happened before they went away from iso (to the triangle) & because the Pistons ran double & triple teams at him constantly. Once Jackson changed the offense, the Bulls dominated Detroit for the next 8 years.
I think you both overrate Andre & Draymont and underrate how hard it was to stop Michael.
Jordan shuts down Curry and Pippen guards Durant. Durant is not 7'0. He is 6'10 at most. All the heights of today's players are exaggerated. Kevin Love is not even 6'8". Ron Harper was 6"6 and could guard Clay. Rodman is much stronger than Draymond and is untouchable as a rebounder. Who covers Jordan. He scores 45 a game.
brush
(57,471 posts)he's also a great defender and would cover Jordan. And no one on the Bulls could stop Durant, a 6' 11" shooter with long arms with a release point on his jumper of that of a legitimate seven-footer that no one can block even now.
Iguodala, a lock-down defender would neutralize Pippen, and Curry with his handle, efficient finishing on drives and long range shooting would be something Harper couldn't contend with.
I say Green and Rodman would be a wash.
And the constant movement and deadly accuracy of the Dubs three three-point shooters that the Warriors have would be too much for the two-man, isolation schemes the Bulls used.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)all the heights are exaggerated. There is a recent story on it. Love isn't even 6'8. He is 6'7 and 3/4. I think Durant is between 6'9 and 6'10. Pippen could take away his outside shot. Klay is a really good player and a good defender. He is not close to Jordan physically and Jordan covers Curry.
You put your number one defender and possibly the greatest defensive guard of all time covering the best shooter of all time. As my friend said who was invited to the NFL combine and was the point guard on his highs school team and is in the top 10 HR hitter in Michigan high school history and got a hit off of Steve Avery is that Curry could not shoot over Jordan who is 3 inches taller Three inches is a lot and he is faster and quicker than Curry. My friend is also part owner of one of the personality tests that is given to every player at the NFL combine. That test has been taken for over 20 years. I can tell you every score of any player in the NFL. Andrew Luck is the highest score ever. My friend was a super athlete. He laughed when I I said what you proposed.
They did not use a 2 man isolation game. They used the triangle which is three on one side with a post. Igudowa and Kukoc is the wash. Kukoc was a great outside shooter and Igudowa would have his hands full. Rodman is more physical that Draymond. Draymond is a better offensive player with an ok shot.
brush
(57,471 posts)So the if Durant is 6'10" or 6'9" as you say, that would make Jordan 6'5" and Pippen 6'6".
That makes your argument on height not a factor at all. All the Warriors three-point shooters would still prevail. And you're forgetting that that Warrior team was the best defensive team of it's time also.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)was actually taller than his listed height. There is a whole story that was just published on that recently. I am pretty sure Durant is 6'9".
brush
(57,471 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 12, 2022, 03:56 PM - Edit history (1)
exaggerated but the Warriors' players were?
Casady1
(2,133 posts)harper is 6'6 and Pippen is 6'7. Thompson is 6'7 Draymond is 6'8(maybe) and Igudowa is 6'7 I don't think the Warriors are overstating their size. I think Durant was and the others weren't.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)three of the greatest defensive players to ever play the game. Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.
brush
(57,471 posts)And Iguodala, Green and Thompson were/are pretty good defenders themselves.
The Warriors' trio of three point shooters and their constant movement would wear down the Bulls. Dubs in six.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)He would score 45 points a game.
brush
(57,471 posts)Advantage Warriors.
Jordan stops Curry. Harper is the same height as Thompson and Pippen takes away Durant. Pippen plays big and is one of the greatest defenders of all time.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)you are now seeing positionless basketball. The result of that is really poor two point game. Not every team can shoot 3 pointers all the time and survive. Look at the Celtics and Knicks. It is almost painful to watch them. They can't score on a two point offense if their lives depended on it. They don't have the shooters to only have three pointers as the only way they can score.
This is the result of no one playing either the low post or the high post. You can get repeatable two point scoring off of either post but you have to play a "position"
Jokic and the Greek freak are not point guards even though they want to be. Probably the most sound offense today is the Suns with Ayton playing center and Paul playing the point.
brush
(57,471 posts)I say the Warriors with their 3 3-point shooters, great defensive play and constant movement would come out ahead of the Bulls even if Jordan gets his 30 or more.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)I saw everyone play and every finals since 1965. I commented on where I think basketball is at and I agree with Charles Barkley. You are seeing 3 point shooting contests. I just think the Bulls are superior physically over the Warriors. They were more coordinated with better bodies. They were faster, quicker and that would wear the warriors out. When you said Curry was just a little better that Jordan you lost credibility. No one ever compares Curry with Jordan in any sports show (Dan Patrick, Rich Eisen) when they compare the GOAT. Curry is never in the discussion. Like I said Curry is the greatest shooter ever but MJ. That is another level. I have one for you. "Who is the greatest shooting team ever" all positions from point guard through Center? This is a test of your bball knowledge.
brush
(57,471 posts)And FYI: I've been watching basketball since the same time as you...when the Lakers with Baylor and West could never beat the Celtics, and when the Sixers with Wilt Chamberlain, Hal Greer, Wali Jones, Chet Walker and Luke Jackson (Cunningham as 6th man) finally beat the Celtics in '66-67 with a then record of 68 wins for the season. So I know a bit about the game too.
We'll have to agree to disagreed on who would win between Jordan's Bulls ans Steph's Warriors.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)it wasn't you. That guy is an idiot. I copied my best move from Chet the Jet. I still ask you who was the greatest shooting team from PG to Center of all time.
brush
(57,471 posts)Bulls teams from their heyday (I'd include the 6th man to get Kerr, Hodges and/or Paxton in there); the 2017 Warriors who we've been talking about; one of the Spurs teams with Robinson, Duncan, Parker, and I think Ginobili had gotten there for at least one of the Robinson years maybe Horry too; one of the Celtics of the '80s with their big three of Bird, Parrish and Mchale; and let's go back in the day even further and include the Knicks of the early '70s with Wilis Reed, Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe, Bill Bradley, Dave Debusschere and Jerry Lucas.
Wait, I have to include one of the Kareem Lakers teams too. And the Sixers of Chamberlain, Greer and Walker.
All of those teams would be contenders. It's too hard to just pick one, what with the onset of the three-point era and all.
Give me yours.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)and it is not even close. None of the other teams you mention had all the positions shoot well from long range. Robinson couldn't match Reed for shooting long distance. I love McHale but DeBuscherre could bomb from twenty( did you see Marv Albert saying in a recent interview say that DeBuscherre would have been a great 3 point shooter. Obviously Lucas is one of the greatest shooters of all time. Bradley, Monroe, and Frazier could all shoot. These guys were all bombers and no one else had anyone shoot that well from long distance from every position.
Also I heard JJ Reddick kind of mocking DeBuscherre as a top 50 player and I wrote in the youtube comments that not only was DeBuscherre one of the greatest players but he was also a way superior athlete to almost anyone he mentioned because he played 2 sports at the major league level. He pitched for the White Sox and had a sub 3.00 ERA. The Knicks ran a play for DeBuscherre to shoot from the top of the circle.
brush
(57,471 posts)had to diminish his shooting from his Bullets days to fit into the roster. "Find the open man" was their mantra as they could all shoot.
And DeBuscherre was one of the rare and legitimate two-sport, major league athletes. They don't come around often. Deon Sanders, Bo Jackson and DeBusherre are the only ones I can think of in recent sports history.
Kyler Murray and Russell Wilson I've heard were also good baseball players but chose football.
Casady1
(2,133 posts)"Breaks of the game" by David Halberstam. He is the famous author of The best and the brightest. He wrote 5 sports books.
Sept '49, Oct.'64, The Breaks of the game, Playing for keeps( Michael Jordan ). A son of a friend of mine who played basketball in college said to me after reading The breaks of the game" that it wasn't only the best sports book he ever read, it was the greatest book he ever read.
Brian Jordan( baseball) was also an all pro strong safety for the Falcons, Sanders was a journeyman baseball player. Brian Jordan was much more accomplished. Danny Ainge played for the Blue Jays but he couldn't hit. Kyler Murray would have been an excellent baseball player and Russell Wilson made it to double a. Ainge was a great athlete. Best QB in Oregon and a scratch golfer. The guy who would have been great was John Elway. He was the best Yankee in the entire farm system.
brush
(57,471 posts)and football too in college? I guess the pro football money, especially for quarterbacks, has caught up to baseball money so guys like Murray and Wilson don't need to try both sports now.
Too bad. I'd like to see how they'd do.
I'm gonna check out that book.
didn't play QB in college. He was just the best H.S QB in Oregon. When you start reading any of the sports books you will not put it down. He comes from my hometown Yonkers.
Cartoonist
(7,529 posts)ProfessorGAC
(69,854 posts)The 73 win team didn't even win a championship, though Curry was playing on a bad knee in the finals.
They added Durant the next year, but to make room they got rid of size & girth in the frontcourt. Rodman would get 20 rebounds a game, even with Green out there. Durant, for his height is not a great rebounder because he plays the perimeter on both sides of the ball. So, he's seldom in a place to box out & get position. Could he be a rebounder if his game was played nearer to the basket? I'm sure he could. He's super skilled & athletic. But, it's not his game.
The Bulls were a GREAT transition team. The Warriors were not great at transition defense.
And, if any team ever could guard 3 line to 3 line, it was a team with Jordan, Pippen, & Harper.
Also, the Bulls had the most accurate 3 point shooter in NBA history coming off the bench. If they played a 3 point focused game, who on that Warriors bench would run the whole court trying to stop Kerr & Armstrong from hitting open 3s? The Bulls bench was far better defensively than the Warriors guys. And, they had a 7 footer pulling big man out because of his reliable 18 foot shooting.
Last, what set of rules? Jordan, during that period shot 50% and scored 32 a game when hand checking, forearm contact, & bumping of the ball handler was allowed. Why would anybody think Jordan wouldn't score 45-50 a game under the more stringent defensive rules?
Go to the rules of the 90s, and I think the shooting efficiency of the Warriors suffers.
I'm not suggesting a Bulls sweep, but the Warriors would not win more games than they lost
Johnny2X2X
(21,746 posts)The 96-97' Bulls wouldn't even be prepared to guard the 3 point line like you have to to stay within 20 in today's game. It would be shooting drills for Steph and Klay from the 3 point like. They might make 35 threes vs Chicago's pack the lane defense.
brush
(57,471 posts)Johnny2X2X
(21,746 posts)The most unstoppable players on offense ever were MJ and Durant, obviously Kareem and Wilt before them were unstoppable for different reasons too.
Now if you gave the Bulls a year or two to get accustomed to the modern game, who knows, but basketball has advanced in skill level more in the last 20 years than any other sport. The skill and speed players play with today is just a totally different level than teams from the 90s.
And the 3 pointers are just a statistically more efficient shot than the mid range jumpers Jordan lived on. The Bulls made 6.3 three pointers a game that season, which was really high for back then. The Warriors make double that per game and in big games that number goes up.
If Jordan were coming up in today's game he'd force himself to become a good 3 point shooter or he wouldn't be the best player in the NBA.
But back to the skill level, it's off the charts now, and everyone who sees the floor regularly has all the skills. Guys like Joel Embid can handle the ball at 7-0, 285 lbs, and can shoot better than Jordan. Jordan basically pioneered elite shot making, the skill of making tough shots when guarded, his highlights are amazing! But if you watch today's game, every NBA game has shot making in it that rivals the very best Michael Jordan career highlights. The amazing double clutch reverses Jordan made are now just a regular occurrence in any NBA game today. The double clutch 12 foot jumpers that Jordan was the first player to make consistently are now not even highlights, they're just shots any regular guy makes in the NBA.
And here's where I'll say something controversial, today's game is more physical overall. They allow more contact today. Now they don't allow the cheap shots they did in the 90s, the dirty plays today get you ejected right away. But overall there is more contact and physicality today. Watch full games from the 90s on Youtube, the defense was good, but not as much physical contact regularly allowed as there is today.