Basketball fans:When did "carrying" the ball stop being called?

[brush]

I go back a ways and remember seeing old footage of games back in the '60s, maybe even the '70s of point guards like Cousy bring up the ball and making every effort to keep their hand atop the ball when dribbling.

I don't know when it changed, maybe the late '70s-early '80s, but now dribblers routinely have their hands on the side of the ball when dribbling and cutting. Maybe it was the advent of the cross-over dribble (which you can't do without doing what used to be called "carrying", and what refs used to call long ago.

Just last night watching the Mavericks v Timberwolves game, I saw Luka Doncic time and again with his hand just about under the ball as he made cuts when dribbling.

I'm not really missing the ref whistles interrupting the flow of the game, just wondering when it happened, and did the Commissioner's office and refs come to an agreement to modernize the game and stop calling "carrying".

I remember Mitch Richmond of the Run/TMC Warriors having a dangerous cross-over, as did AI of the Sixers of course. But they came in the '90s and '00s. IIRC it happened before that.

Anyone have any thoughts.

[coprolite]

1. I have rhe same question about traveling

Now you see players taking 1....2....3 steps, down the center, on their way to dunking the ball.

[oldsoftie]

2. The NBA has been a joke for years. Carrying/traveling is rampant now.

They all want that ESPN highlight drive to the rim.
If you want to watch real basketball you watch NCAA or WNBA

[brush]

6. I recently watched an ESPN 30 for 30 episode on the NY Knicks championship teams of '70 and '73.

It was excellent and spoke of Coach Red Holtsman's big emphasis — "hit the open man." It worked with that group of men (two major additions to the '73 team, Jerry Lucas and Earl "the Pearl" Monroe)...and all were good shooters so there was ball movement with passing, not carrying the ball and traveling.

That was beautiful basketball, and I must say, like the women's game now, as you mentioned.

[JT45242]

3. It was during the 80s, when traveling and carrying stopped being called

Elgin Baylor took a lot of heat for saying that Jordan would have been called for traveling on every post up move.

They also didn't call the extended arm charge on Kareem.

But it was during the transition from magic and bird to Jordan in the late 80s.

[brush]

5. Thanks, JT45242. I think you're right...during the '80s.

[Silent Type]

4. Agree. And, I swear there is a lot of double-dribbling too. I've been watching more women's

basketball lately. There's a lot of "traveling" and walking.

I guess it keeps the game flowing, but it's definitely different from decades ago.

[BoRaGard]

7. Agreed. These are the Traveling Times prophets warned us about

?a476808

[twodogsbarking]

8. And 3 seconds? Did that go away too?

[brush]

9. Good one. It's not as noticeable as the other non-calls.

[maspaha]

10. My husband and I were just talking about this exact thing last night...

I think the trend away from the traveling call started with Dr. Julius Erving vs Larry Bird. The exact moment happened when Dr.J jumped up to the rim and literally floated while moving the ball around Larry Bird’s arms and head then gently dropping it through the basket. Dr. J’s athleticism show was so exciting many up and coming players tried to imitate it. The traveling call, in many cases, will shut down that show of athleticism. But I kinda like the show, so go ahead and give them an extra step, or two unless it’s the game winning shot against my Kentucky Wildcats.

[brush]

13. I remember that move of Dr. J's. It was beautiful, and he didn't travel...

as he stayed in the air the whole time while he went under the backboard, switched hands with the ball, came out on the other side and finger-rolled the ball into the basket.

[maspaha]

20. Yep! That's the one! Beautiful!

[central scrutinizer]

11. Why did the rooster cross the road to get to an NBA game?

He heard the refs were blowing a lot of fowls.

[brush]

12. Heehee.

[Voltaire2]

14. It is a difficult rule.

Putting your hand underneath the ball is not illegal, but using that hand to reposition or stop the ball is.

This video illustrates the rule: https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/discontinued-dribble-in-the-post-3/

[brush]

16. The video is a good example of traveling. The dribbler also "carried" the ball...

which is what my OP is about. Having your hand under the ball when dribbling used to be illegal and called for "carrying" back in the day.

Other responders have mentioned, rightly, that traveling, 3 seconds and double dribble are hardly called now either.

[Voltaire2]

17. 3 second violations are called a lot. Double dribble is almost always called.

The video illustrates exactly the original question. "The offensive player in the post, Brook Lopez, moves his hand under the ball, bringing the ball to a pause in an attempt to freeze the defender, before continuing on with his dribble." If Lopez had kept his hand on top of the ball, and merely slowed the ball down he would have been fine. If his hand was underneath the ball but the ball continued to move there would not have been a violation.

" the language there doesn't ban putting your hand under the ball, it bans doing it with the effect of carrying it from one point to another or bringing it to a pause." - a reddit discussion on the rule: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/yl7eu4/what_is_carrying_here_are_the_rules/

[brush]

18. Hand under the ball when dribbling used to a call for "carrying."

I probably go back farther than you in watching/playing basketball. See the post just after yours. There was an agreement to allow the game to flow better and stop calling "carrying."

It happened gradually in the '80s with the advent of the cross-over dribble, which can't be done without having your hand on the side or nearly under the ball.

Take a look at some of the old videos from the '60s and you'll see point guards like Cousy making sure to keep his hand atop the ball so as not to be called for "carrying."

[brush]

19. You could be right about some of that. Many rules have been relaxed to speed the flow of the game.

Just as the hard fouls in the '80s and '90s aren't allowed now.

Remember when Kevin McHale Clotheslined Laker Kurt Rambis in a playoff game in the '80s right in front of a ref and no foul was called. Mchale later cracked up laughing about when interview.

You couldn't drive down the middle against the Knicks (Oakley and Mason), or the Pacers (Dale and Antonio Davis, not brothers). One could get seriously mauled trying that and no fouls would be called.


Things have change quite a bit.

[underpants]

15. It was an unofficial NBA decision to open up the game.

When it happened was gradual and detailed elsewhere on this thread.

They wanted to open up scoring and make the game less static. Freer flowing as the game was expanding overseas. The international game has taken over here now in terms of strategy, formation, and style.

They also adapted a more “no advantage” subjective system. If you aren’t closely guarded it doesn’t matter. I don’t notice carrying that much and walking gets a pass but not too much from what I see and I watch a lot of the playoffs. The one that kills me still is the hop step. That came in in the early 90’s. Pick up your dribble, two steps usually into the lane, hop over/around the legs of the defender, land then go up again. It’s up and down.

Self passes off the backboard are openly allowed now.

One thing Jordan did was he changed defensive strategy and it shut down the game. Pat Riley’s Knicks just shut down drives from MJ and as everything is a copy cat, everyone started doing it. All kinds of ridiculously complicated spacing rules were put in. Finally they got rid of man D and allowed zones.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. 40 Years Ago, At Least

Maybe 50. The ABA was careful to not have referees call violations that didn't specifically create an advantage. They didn't want the pace of the games disrupted by strict adherence to the letter of the rule.
Magic Johnson did that a lot, and later Iverson. But, they knew not to do it to make a move or it probably would be called.
Also, if you carefully watch old films of Cousy, he did some of that change of direction stuff by cupping the ball (he didn't have big hands).
But, it became really prevalent in the ABA to not call these things if it didn't create an advantage the player wouldn't otherwise have.
That carried over to the NBA not long after the merger.
It's not as recent as many seem to think.

[brush]

22. I know it was a while ago. Probably begin to not be called when...

Last edited Fri Jun 14, 2024, 07:30 AM - Edit history (1)

when cross-over dribble came into the game. I have to push back a bit. I've watched old Cousy videos and I distinchly remember him making an effoft to keep his hand atop the ball to keep from getting called for carrying...and it was called fairly often back then.

Ggood thing it was phased out as it was a disruption to the flow of the game.