Some Thoughts About Trolls

[demwing]

Some of our member have expressed concern about trolls in the group. As 2016 grows closer, the trolling issues will likely become more volatile, so we're taking some steps to help out:

1. In the beginning, our hosts agreed that we would all vote before we blocked someone. Since we've never had a split vote, and since the host voting takes time, that "rule" has been eliminated. Host can now act on their own discretion. This should speed up response time.

2. We have 5 hosts (myself, NYC_SKP, MannyGoldstein, rhett o rick, Cosmic Kitten), but we aren't on Host schedules, If you see or experience any trolling in the PRG, send a DU Mail to at least one of the hosts. The more hosts you notify, the quicker we will be likely to react.

3. Apart from banning people in advance of any trouble (which ain't going to happen here), notifying a host is the ONLY way to ensure that the PRG becomes a safe environment. If you really want this place safe, be proactive and participative.

Help us make this the place you want it to be. Post, support other posters, and don't let the trolls get away with their intimidation agenda.

thanks!

Demwing

[aspirant]

1. I see 2 blocked DU'ers now,

but previously there was only 1.

It says that any host can unblock any poster, so can you inform us of who unblocked that poster and why?

[djean111]

2. If there was 1 and now there is 2, then someone was blocked, not unblocked?

[aspirant]

3. No

the original one was different than the existing 2

[demwing]

4. SOP: Users are first given a 30 day time out

For the original user, that 30 days has passed. The current two roll off this week.

The policy is as follows:

1. 1st offense: 30 day Time Out
2. Multiple offenses: Blocked
3. The warning system is discretionary. If a user is especially trollish, they can move directly to being Blocked.

thanks!

[aspirant]

5. Where are these SOPS written,

I missed this one.

"Multiple offenses: Blocked" is this a permanent block and what is the actual number? Multiple could go on for quite some time.

[demwing]

6. The procedures are shared between the hosts

But it's not a secret, so I don't mind sharing

"Mulitple" means more than 1, but as I wrote, everything in discretionary. 1 bad offense (overt hate speech, for example) and we'll show you (not YOU, but "you&quot the door.

Hasn't happened yet, hope it never does.

[aspirant]

7. Demwing,

isn't one of the core principles of Populism transparency? Keeping the people informed of existing and new SOP's are vital in understanding the group's purpose.

How can we be the cops on the threads if we don't know all the rules?

If guidelines are still in negotiations, fine, but if they are agreed upon please include them in the group's SOP'S

[demwing]

11. The SOPS are the operating procedures for the Hosts

they are informal and subject to change. If anyone asks, I feel very comfortable discussing what we do--there are no secrets.

Can you tell me how having advance knowledge that PRG hosts have the discretion to implement a 30 day Time Out before enacting a permanent block would affect your ability to help us keep this place safe?

I suppose we could make every member a host, and then people could just black each other at will...but that doesn't sound populist or progressive to me, it sound anarchistic.

Anyway, know that if you have any question, I'll answer them. Anytime. Just don't ask the same question 1000 times, cause man that's not productive

[aspirant]

15. SOPS

"informal and subject to change" Why not include them in the SOP, it would only be typing or deleting in existing paragraphs.

" anyone asks" could you please inform me of all procedures that are not presently in the SOP's

"affect your ability". These are my initial concerns. When I am trying to keep this place a safe haven and encounter someone I assume is banned, I feel confusion. I ask myself why do I invest the time if I'm only going to see that same person happily frolicking inside the place again. I come here for some peace an solitude and I don't think a known intruder will change. If I inform the hosts and over and over again I see the nuisance reappear, what's the point?

No one is asking that every one be a host, just let these who want to participate be able to voice an opinion. If somethings are outside of our awareness our voices are silent.

[demwing]

16. This "SOP" confusion is my fault

You're thinking "Statement of Purpose" and I'm thinking "Standard Operating Procedure"

The group has an statement of purpose that's very short. The hosts have a standard operating procedure that's informal and subject to change....

I'm on a bus, so I'll respond more later tonight

.

[NYC_SKP]

17. Group Statements of Purpose can not be edited once they are created.

SOP (Standard Operating Purposes) are a different matter.

As demwing explained, we communicated about blocking policy early on, but we can't modify the Statement of Purpose and that's probably for the better.

If we wanted to, I suppose we could pin something about it to the top of the forum but we haven't.

As we approach the primaries, and with all the drama around candidates, presumed and otherwise, we can expect greater numbers of disruptive posts that might lead to a member being blocked.

We hope otherwise, we hope people will behave if reminded that they're in a protected group.

[aspirant]

19. PRG Policy

" communicated about blocking policy early on" I still haven't found the 30-day time-out, can you guide me to where it was communicated with any other additions.

What are the CONS of pinning something stating all of PRG's policies?

"We hope people will behave" : That doesn't seem to be happening. In the BOG group you have 116 DU'ERS blocked including Manny Goldstein, Rhett-o-Rick and Demwing. Can you tell me if they are on 30-day time-outs?

[NYC_SKP]

21. A: Blocking policies are not "communicated". B: This is not the BOG.

There probably aren't any "CONS" to posting the policies, but the "PROS" may not be significant enough to for the hosts to have to take the effort away from busy and productive lives to sit down and find consensus on what to write, etc., and then post them.

So far, only one member has expressed concern.

In practice, blocking will happen as we see fit and then if there's an error it can be discussed and corrected.

We aren't trying to be the perfect group, we just want a peaceful place where discussion can occur.

Not everyone will be happy with how it's run, and we're OK with that, I think.

The other hosts might feel differently but I doubt it.

[aspirant]

29. Living Populism

"busy and productive lives" The Populist people are not informed because of this?

"As we see fit" Sounds exactly like what a Populist Democracy should be like.

"aren't trying to be the perfect group" then striving for perfection and bettering oneself isn't among PRG's goals?

[demwing]

24. If you don't think it's happening (people behaving), what have you done to help create change?

You've seen it (or your message above is meaningless) but have you reported a single occurrence to a host?

I have never been contacted by you in that regard. Not once.

You asked:

"I still haven't found the 30-day time-out, can you guide me to where it was communicated with any other additions. "

No. I cannot. As I said, it is an informal administrative rule agreed on by the hosts.

Next question?

[aspirant]

27. "what have you done"

I guess my posting on this thread has been plenty because you have blocked MAdem again. Is it a "Time Out" or permanent?

There's another question along with all the questions about core Populist Principles.

[demwing]

31. I welcome your posts

and your participation, but you had nothing to do with MAdem.

In the name of transparency, here's everyone that's been suspended or blocked on PRG:

• MAdem - Blocked
• VanillaRhapsody - Blocked
• Cryptoad - Suspended 30 days
• Fred Sanders - Suspended 30 days
• MAdem - Suspended 30 days
• VanillaRhapsody - Suspended 30 days

I consider this matter done. Let's move on to the next topic...

[NYC_SKP]

18. "just let these who want to participate be able to voice an opinion" easier said than done.

We could include make hosting more transparent and include input from more members if we posted an open discussion thread, but this would be a bit rude and could even be alerted on and result in a hide.

One GD host recently had a locking statement hidden by a jury, unbelievable: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026184309#post1

So it's really easier to simply trust the hosts. I don't have a problem with an open discussion or a PM discussion about how things are done but the guidelines are pretty clear.

This is a place to discuss ways to move the party in a progressive direction, not to defend the status quo.

The primaries are going to be interesting depending upon who openly declares and is running.

We're sticking to reform, and that might draw some disruptive behavior, and that behavior might lead to blocking.

You want transparency, this thread is a demonstration that the host want it to.

[aspirant]

20. PRG Policies

"more transparent" Isn't a core Populist Principle transparency? Why not just pin all our policies and let the posters create there own threads discussing the policies, good or bad? Isn't this the freedom of speech we have all been screaming at the MSM to enact?

"Trust the hosts" Is this the Non-Populist Principle involved in HRC"S e-mails, Fast Track Authority and NSA spying? We should be above this.

"the guidelines are pretty clear" This is what my questions have been all about, make them crystal clear for all to consume.

"move the party in a progressive direction" Isn't complete transparency a vital Populist Principle?

Lay out all of PRG"S policies, complete transparency and then we will be riding a true wave of Populism

[Enthusiast]

25. Where do you find this information?

[aspirant]

26. Go to PRG site

push "About this Group" button and scroll down to blocked members where happily you will see now 3 blocked members, not 2. The new entry is the original blocked member which I assume is on another 30-day time-out.

[pscot]

8. Seems clear enough

It's hard to imagine anyone finding fault with this, but someone will, fer sure.

[aspirant]

9. Asking for transparency

in a Populist Group is faulty logic? Where should I go to ask for such a thing?

[pscot]

12. The host super powers

as spelled out on the group page seem clear enough. I didn't see anything in Demwing's post that contravened those.

[aspirant]

13. Contravening?

My problem is not knowing what to contravene.

SOP - "Block a Member From the Group"
"Members can be unblocked by any Host" Nowhere does it say anything about a 30-day time out.

Super Powers, where is the Populist equality for all

[rhett o rick]

10. As I see it, disagreements over policies or issues are ok as long as it doesn't

get into ridicule and mocking. If ridicule and/or mocking is your thing, stay in GD.

[aspirant]

14. My concerns are POPULIST policies and principles,

that is why I came here.

[NYC_SKP]

22. Thank you, demwing, for creating this group!

I think we're going to need it!



And there will be trolls and there will be some controversies and I'm confident that we'll handle it well!

[demwing]

23. Thank you, NYC_SKP, for all your help! /nt

[HassleCat]

28. Must purge them

This is my first post here. I just quit another forum where I had been posting for ten years. It was awash in trolls. Some of them had their computers set up to alert them when specific topics, such as climate change, appeared, and they flooded the site with boilerplate nonsense, personal attacks, etc. You have to put some trust in the moderators, who are called hosts here, I guess, and let them do their thing. Sure, once in a while, someone will be punished unjustly, but you know who the hosts are, and you can appeal for mercy. The alternative of doing nothing about trolls just guarantees a downward spiral, eventually arriving at a place where all you have is trolls insulting each other.

[NYC_SKP]

30. Welcome to DU.

I'm pretty sure we'll host well, but we aren't going to please all the people all the time.

DU has forums, groups, and protected groups.

The hosts of protected groups can block other members from hosting for the slightest offense or no offense at all.

We aren't like that. A person is going to have to be pretty nasty before they get blocked, and even then we would probably consider unblocking them if it's clear that they are an otherwise faithful progressive or democrat.

True RW trolls are usually taken care of in a more permanent fashion.

[rbrnmw]

32. Welcome to Democratic Underground

[GP6971]

33. Keep in mind we have our share of trolls here too

But DU does an excellent job of removing them.

[Fairgo]

34. Here, here!

Thank you for organising and maintaining this group. It serves an important purpose in preserving a voice for core democratic values. You can compromise everything else, I suppose, but not your democratic soul. I appreciate the shelter of this forum.