Bernie isn't promising the moon. He's promising to *fight for* the moon.

[DanTex]

That's the whole point. Everyone knows he can't snap his fingers and get the GOP to stop obstructing. But with Bernie, we will have a president always fighting for the people, not corporations or wealthy special interests.

His supporters understand that.
His detractors do too, they just pretend not to.

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread DanTex.

[Gothmog]

18. sanders' agenda is dependent on a magical voter revolution that I would love to understand

I have never taken sanders seriously due to a complete lack of legislative accomplishments of sanders and the fact that I do not understand sanders voter revolution The NYT also did not understand how sanders voter revolution works

Link to tweet

Like the NYT, I have questions about this voter revolution concept. I have asked sanders supporters to explain this concept to me and so far no one seems to know how this voter revolution will work in the real world https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=430371

Gothmog (78,308 posts)
64. Exactly how does sanders voter revolution work in the real world?

It is my understanding that even sanders has acknowledged that he cannot adopt his platform unless he holds rallies and this voter revolution occurs. Is this correct? How does this voter revolution work in the real world? Again as I understand this concept, so many new voters will rise up and force the GOP to be reasonable. Is this correct? How many new voters does it take to accomplish this goal and where are these voters? How will these new voters force the GOP to be reasonable when so many GOP officeholders are in gerrymandered districts? Will these new voters move to these districts in time to vote for sanders’ platform? If these new voters are real, then why are theses new voters not showing up in the polls? New voters in such large numbers so as to cause the GOP to be reasonable should show up in polling. Are these new voters waiting for something? If these new voters really exist in the real world, why has sanders not used these new voters to get some meaningful legislation passed?

I look forward to answers to these questions

sanders interview with the NYT may have gone better if he had explained how this revolution would work in the real world. I am still curious

[Mister Ed]

77. Yes, I appreciate this OP. n/t

[FreepFryer]

2. And he's betting Uranus on it. (n/t)

[sheshe2]

3. ...

[George II]

11. BoOoOoOoOoM! Best line of the week. I needed that laugh.

[FreepFryer]

12. ...

[empedocles]

78. .

[betsuni]

16. ...

[wyldwolf]

25. BURN!

[NCProgressive]

48. hahahaha

That made me spit my coffee

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Yeah, his detractors are flat-out clueless.

You and Uncle Joe must be identical twins.

[Skittles]

5. LOL

seriously funny

[Hav]

6. Could he do that from the moon, though?

We could watch him wag his finger from down here.

Anyways, promising to do something is all good but delivering on those promises is the more important part. For some reason, his followers don't seem to understand that. If his track record of getting his "revolution" become reality is any indication, I suppose there will be nothing more than words and lots of disappointed followers in the end.

[blm]

7. In decades of speeches he railed against banks and financial industry.

Elizabeth Warren researched the problems for decades, formulated remedies, fought for her idea to create a new cabinet level agency based on those remedies, and then built it from the ground up.

A lot of people fight for the moon, and a few people are like Neil Armstrong who spends years preparing for and then successfully lands on the moon.

[dawg day]

27. Good analogy with Neil Armstrong.

He also worked well with other astronauts.

[blm]

35. Heh.

Yes, I thought it was a great fit.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Don't tell me you're fighting for anything

unless there's a fair chance you can actually get it. Politicians can tell you they're "fighting for" anything they know you want but that they can't deliver, but it's all cool as long as they're fighting for it. Hey, I'm tilting at that windmill you wanted!

[cstanleytech]

21. In other words its like how after a rumor that a Walmart store might be closing and they release a

statement declaring they are committed to the community which in of itself is true right until the doors close for the last time.
By that I mean yes they say one thing now however if the reality is that the store is losing money the odds are its going to close eventually which is like a campaign promise as a politician might say something now but the reality is that they often cannot make good on their promise without the support of the others in government.

[Magoo48]

9. Yes, and the question is, what are the "moderates" promising to fight for?

[frazzled]

13. Fighting doesn't mean anything

Unless you are willing to settle the fight with less than the moon, probably a lot less. And Sanders has consistently refused to settle for less than exactly what he thinks is perfect.

He doesn’t understand or follow the dictum “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”

Fighting and not getting anything is losing.

[Colo indy]

30. But what will he fight for?

Will biden fight for universal health care? Now or later?
Will Biden fight for a 15 dollar minimum wage? Now or later?
Will he fight for free college and college debt reduction? Now or later?
Will he fight for the environment? Now or later?

Or will biden say one thing and do another? Or just plan ignore us.

I really wish he can convince me he wants all those things. But Biden's supporters attacking Bernie supporters makes me seriously wonder if we bernie supporters are really welcome under this "big" tent.

[ehrnst]

59. Biden has fought for UHC - what do you think the ACA was?

He's just done so successfully.....

Will Biden fight for a 15 dollar minimum wage? Now or later?

In a roundabout way,In a roundabout way, Sanders praised the billionaire businessman and expected they could cooperate on campaign pledges to raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour, to force big pharmaceutical companies into lower prices for seniors and to preserve Social Security.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article115360103.html

Field staff earn $36,000 a year, which would be above minimum wage on a standard workweek, but Sanders field personnel say they’re actually working about 60 hours a week — for an hourly wage of $13.

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/20/20700841/bernie-sanders-minimum-wage-staff-pay

Or will biden say one thing and do another?

Bernie Sanders, now a millionaire, once called millionaire senators "immoral"

Sen. Bernard Sanders, a Democratic presidential candidate who has defended his new millionaire status despite building his political career on railing against the 1%, said it was “immoral” for millionaires to be senators during his failed Senate bid in 1971.

Bernie Sanders pushes back at critics of his new wealth: 'I didn't know it was a crime to write a good book'

Sanders: “Well, the process includes 500 super-delegates on the second ballot. So I think that the will of the people should prevail, yes. The person who has the most votes should become the nominee.” He was the sole “yes” vote with five “no” votes from the rest of the primary field.

His response was the direct opposite of his 2016 presidential campaign, when he ran for the Democratic Party nomination against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. In 2016, Sanders called the nomination process “rigged” and withheld his support for Clinton, who had received the majority of party delegates. Although Sanders later threw his support behind Clinton at the party’s convention in July 2016, he made it clear that he disagreed with the nomination process and how Clinton received the majority of delegates.

Bernie Sanders says he won't release full medical records

Speaking during CNN's town hall in Las Vegas, Sanders was asked to clarify whether his presidential campaign would be releasing full medical records, which he previously stated he would do. Sanders will take part in the Democractic candidate debate Wednesday night.

Last October he said, "The people do have a right to know about the health of a senator, somebody who's running for president of the United States -- full disclosure."

Sanders camp admits anti-Warren script was deployed in multiple early states

Sanders initially attributed the talking points to rogue staffers, and supporters launched an online campaign to convince people the document was fake.

Bernie Sanders backs away from 2005 gun vote

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders backed away from a 2005 vote that gave gun manufacturers immunity from prosecution on Saturday night, announcing in a press release that he supports a proposed bill to amend that vote.

The new position is a reversal from statements Sanders and his aides have made throughout the campaign.

April 15, 2015

“I am one of the exceptions," he said. "I am not going to start a super PAC. I’m not going to go around the country talking to millionaires. Now I'm saving my time because they wouldn't give me any money anyhow and that's fine."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senator-bernie-sanders-calls-hillary-clinton-foundation-money/story?id=30687863

October 14, 2015

Mr. Sanders was cheered at a fancy campaign fund-raiser at the Hollywood home of Syd Leibovitch, a high-end real estate agent, and his wife, Linda, on Wednesday night.

Tickets for the event sold for a minimum of $250. Those who spent the maximum, $2,700, or who raised $10,000, were invited to a “pre-event reception,” according to the invitation.

The 14 co-hosts included Cindy Asner, the former wife of the actor Ed Asner, the actress Mimi Kennedy, and Benjamin W. Decker, whose website notes that he was once called the “legendary Hollywood P.R. maven” by Forbes magazine, and used to produce “celebrity-driven red-carpet movie premieres.”
...........................................
It was the ninth such event of his campaign, his aides said, according to the pool report.
................................

As Mr. Sanders began speaking to the guests, he joked that the Leibovitch house was a “proletariat” home, and told them, “The truth is there are many people in this country who have money but also believe in social justice.”

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/15/bernie-sanders-has-fund-raiser-at-fancy-hollywood-home/

[frazzled]

70. Okay, say you're dying of thirst

Would you choose a half-glass of water if that's all that's available, or would you reject it as insufficient and have no water at all?

History tells us that, legislatively speaking, Sanders has almost always refused the half-glass of water.

[ehrnst]

82. +10000

[uponit7771]

68. +1

[Historic NY]

14. How come his state Of Vermont didn't buy what he's selling?

He's been preaching the same shit since he was an avowed Socialist in 1978.

He's also the guy against war until he got them to parked the uber expensive F-35's in Burlington. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-f-35-really-worth-the-1500000000000-price-tag-25487]

The same guy fighting for a living wage, Vt. went from 10.78 to 10.96 this year.

The same guy against private prisons while Vermont shipped 234 to Mississippi
https://vtdigger.org/2019/01/27/inside-prison-vermont-inmates-1366-miles/]

What difference has he made in his own state is a good indication of what he will do in the United States.

[ehrnst]

15. Can he also *fight for* eradicating mosquitoes, forgiveness of all credit card debt and mortages,

100% subsidized housing, imprisoning Trump and his family, and making all vehicles use biofuel?

Because those things would be really great, too. I mean, does he not want us to have those things?

If not, why doesn't he promise to *fight for* them?

[Gothmog]

17. Sanders has been pushing something he knew day one could not be passed

sanders has zero major legislative accomplishments in the real world and there is no chance that sanders will be able to pass his agenda in the real world

Link to tweet

But Reid, who served as a Democrat in the U.S. Senate for 30 years, including as majority leader for eight years, said it didn't matter which candidate comes out in support of Sanders' signature health care plan: "I’m against it."

"It’s impractical ... There’s not a chance in hell it would pass," he told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein, instead advocating for strengthening the Affordable Care Act -- or Obamacare -- and looking to pass a public option.

There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

Link to tweet

[LaurenOlimina]

54. Aren't you just saying what the op conceded?

It's kind of funny.

[Gothmog]

57. How does magical voter revolutions work?

I have never taken sanders seriously as a candidate because he has ZERO significant legislative accomplishments in the real world. As I understand it, sanders is claiming that despite his abject failure to get any significant legislation adopted, he will somehow use a magical voter revolution to get his agenda adopted? How does this magical voter revolution work in the real world? Why has sanders not used this magical voter revolution for other issues.

I like living in the real world and I do not believe in magic. Please explain how sanders' magical revolution will work and how sanders will get his agenda passed in the real world.

[LaurenOlimina]

58. Yup, that's what the OP conceded.

[Gothmog]

73. Again, I never took sanders to be a serious candidate and do not understand his appeal

I live in the real world and have been busy working to turn Texas blue. sanders has zero major legislative accomplishments and there is no way that sanders will get any part of his agenda adopted in the real world. So far sanders magical voter revolution has been a bust and it appears that magic does not work in the real world

I like living in the real world which is why I like candidates who have actual accomplishments. I really have never understood the appeal of sanders.

[LaurenOlimina]

83. You live in the real world huh?

" magic does not work in the real world"


Thanks for clarifying that.

[Gothmog]

79. Hillary explains why I and other never took sanders seriously

Link to tweet

[LaurenOlimina]

84. I've read her oppo research.

That's about the worst of it. It's full of molehills.

[Gothmog]

19. Warren calling Bernie Sanders a massive failure. Fails to get things passed,

Link to tweet

[OnDoutside]

24. There are two Post Offices that would say you're wrong !

[Gothmog]

20. Sanders has yet to explain how he'll pay for half of his agenda

Link to tweet

[Recursion]

22. There's no such thing as "fighting", though. It's just something online people made up.

Politicians do not go into an Octagon and beat each other up, more's the pity.

[DanTex]

28. It's a metaphor.

It means using all the tools at the disposal of the president: bully pulpit, appointments, executive orders, etc.

[Recursion]

34. And it's a very bad one

It leaves people with the impression that the lack of progress is because of a lack of will on the part of Democratic politicians, which is not the case, and leads them to then support demagogues who appear angry on TV.

[DanTex]

36. At worst, it's an unproven one.

That's because we haven't had a president who pushed hard for a progressive agenda for decades. Even without the presidential bully pulpit, he's already moved the needle. Every major Dem candidate is now in favor of a $15 minimum wage. Even Biden is in favor of a Green New Deal. Most Americans are now in favor of M4A, free college, and everything else on Bernie's platform. The "revolution" he talks about means getting politicians in line with the electorate, which already supports Bernie's agenda. If he becomes president his power to do that increases dramatically.

At the very least, it means we would have people like Joe Stiglitz instead of Larry Summers and Tim Geithner. Every executive branch position would be filled by a progressive. He would obviously be more aggressive with executive actions than Biden. There would be no proposals for Chained CPI. And so on. And he would never be under the illusion that Republicans could me dealt with as reasonable people, as Biden seems to think.

Biden, on the other hand, actually came out and said "nothing would fundamentally change" if he became president.

[ehrnst]

63. When did Joe say "nothing would fundamentally change" if he became president?

Perhaps you applied confirmation bias to something he has stated he would build on what the Obama administration accomplished?

But I'm sure you have a link to back up this accusation..

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

Biden says his presidency would not be 'a third term of Obama'

“The world has changed. It's different. We have the same value set, he and I. And, you know, I don't think we gave him enough credit. He's a guy that our kids could look up to and they did look up to.”

He added: ”But it's a different world. The same things don't apply. But I do keep in contact with him.

And it seems like Bernie has suddenly decided to embrace Obama for the reflected light of that era, so there's that...

Fact check: Bernie Sanders ad featuring praise from Obama leaves out important context

Obama did say, "That's right. Feel the Bern!" at the 2016 convention. But he said it while trying to get Sanders supporters to vote for Clinton, not while offering an endorsement of Sanders.

Obama was trying to unite the party behind Clinton after her contentious primary with Sanders. During Obama's lengthy testimonial to Clinton, he complimented Sanders supporters -- and promptly encouraged everybody to vote for Democrats.

"So if you agree that there's too much inequality in our economy and too much money in our politics, we all need to be as vocal and as organized and as persistent as Bernie Sanders supporters have been during this election," Obama said. There were cheers. Obama continued: "We all need to get out and vote for Democrats up and down the ticket, and then hold them accountable until they get the job done."

The crowd cheered again, and there was a chant of "Ber-nie!" Obama then said, "That's right -- feel the Bern!"

[DanTex]

64. Here...

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=biden+nothing+would+fundamentally+change&iie=1

[ehrnst]

67. My Goodness, we do get testy when asked to back up one's statements...

Biden said that poverty was “the one thing that can bring this country down” and listed several new programs to help the poor that he would fund if elected.

“We have all the money we need to do it,” he said.

He said that to a small group of wealthy people, to point up the idea that there was enough to go around to fund his programs without threatening them. Which is true. Sweden has more billionaires per capita than the US, yes?

Speaking of easing the fears of wealthy people at fundraisers...

Mr. Sanders was cheered at a fancy campaign fund-raiser at the Hollywood home of Syd Leibovitch, a high-end real estate agent, and his wife, Linda, on Wednesday night.

Tickets for the event sold for a minimum of $250. Those who spent the maximum, $2,700, or who raised $10,000, were invited to a “pre-event reception,” according to the invitation.

The 14 co-hosts included Cindy Asner, the former wife of the actor Ed Asner, the actress Mimi Kennedy, and Benjamin W. Decker, whose website notes that he was once called the “legendary Hollywood P.R. maven” by Forbes magazine, and used to produce “celebrity-driven red-carpet movie premieres.”
...........................................
It was the ninth such event of his campaign, his aides said, according to the pool report.
................................

As Mr. Sanders began speaking to the guests, he joked that the Leibovitch house was a “proletariat” home, and told them, “The truth is there are many people in this country who have money but also believe in social justice.”

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/15/bernie-sanders-has-fund-raiser-at-fancy-hollywood-home/

[treestar]

43. + 1 billion

Absolutely. It is just not relevant. They can't "fight" McConnell and get anywhere. The voters have to vote for Senators who will vote yes on the bill. The POTUS is not the big miracle power who can get everything he wants.

[LanternWaste]

39. It's a bumper sticker. Again.

And it contains no more and no less the wit, the wisdom and the depth of any bumper sticker.

And bumper stickers don't get people to the voting booth any more than "stop being mean!" does.

[uponit7771]

69. +1, I wish they would ... shit, I think Warren could whoop Trumps azz

[dsc]

23. He is promising a bunch of free stuff that no one has to pay for

how isn't that promising the moon?

[janterry]

26. Love Bernie

and I voted for him.

In the end, he's right.

[NurseJackie]

29. LOL! Yes, we're just pretending.

Everyone knows he won't compromise or find common ground and mutual interests. He can't snap his fingers and magically make things happen. He's not well-liked in Congress and he doesn't work well with others. With Bernie, we would have a president always fighting but getting nowhere. His supporters understand that. They just pretend not to.

See? I can do that too.



Joe/Kamala or Biden/Harris 2020!!
Jump on the Biden Bandwagon & abandon the revolution!!

[treestar]

44. Exactly!

He can't "fight" the Senators and beat them! It's not a war. That's civilization. Getting along with others without resorting to violence. And that takes compromise.

[betsuni]

31. How he proposes to stop the GOP from obstructing:

When asked what he would do if McConnell was still Senate majority leader and he was president, he said he would hold rallies. Rallies would knock sense into Republicans and both sides are corrupt.

"I'll tell you, before I put anything on his plate, I would be in the state of Kentucky holding a rally, with tens of thousands of people, to say ... that we need the minimum wage, a state that is really suffering for lack of health care. We're really going to rally the American people in Kentucky. The point I make over and over, Rachel, is the ideas that I talk about are the ideas the American people want. They don't get it because you got a Congress indebted to wealthy campaign contributors."

Ridiculous. Come on.

[NurseJackie]

32. "Ridiculous. Come on. " -- Yes. Exactly. Thank you.

Ridiculous. Come on.

Yes. Exactly. Thank you.

Bernie has snubbed and insulted and ridiculed and smeared and attacked and lied about Democrats for YEARS! But, these are the very people (loyal, lifelong, stalwart Democrats) whom he needs to be allies... yet he continues (to this day) to treat us as adversaries and enemies.

He's ALREADY set himself up for failure. His inability to cooperate, or compromise, or find common ground, or explore mutually beneficial areas of agreement, or to give a little to get a little... his all-or-nothing approach is ALWAYS going to result in NO progress and a preservation of the status quo. As much as he and his fan-base decry "incrementalism" there can be no denying that incremental progress is STILL progress, and it's better than nothing.

Yet, oddly enough, Bernie and his fan-base seem to be delighted in boasting that they "held firm" even though they come away with NOTHING. (It must be nice to be able to afford such luxuries when the most vulnerable among us continue to suffer.)

Rallies would knock sense into Republicans and both sides are corrupt.

I'm so sick of this shit. And from the looks of things, the American people are sick of it too. They see it for what it is, and they aren't buying what he's selling.

[betsuni]

37. I'm so relieved the American people are sick of this shit.

It's common sense.

[LisaM]

56. I don't want a President who's constantly holding rallies.

We have that now, so no thanks.

I want someone who is mostly in Washington, working hard on a daily basis to get things done.

Constantly holding rallies with adoring fans is the same as being in an echo chamber. And it's not what we elect a President to do.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. K&R!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[grantcart]

38. He s promising to tax like Jupiter

Just like Mondale and McGovern that netted each campaign 1 state Sanders promises "Yes I will raise taxes".

MC Sally was running an a devastating ad with a grimacing Sanders looking into the camera and stating his promise to raise middle class taxes.

Warren's tax proposals were sensible, practical and something that polls well.

It's over but it's curious to see these minute by minute desperate Ops. Apparently Sanders supporters don't understand proportional delegate allocation (which Sanders was counting on to seal their early lead into a permanent lead).

It's getting a little disparate.

[Sunlei]

40. Bernie may not win the entire war but please remember in 2ish years when we have

medicare for 50 years and older who to thank for asking for the sun/moon and stars.


Not just medicare insurance for 50 and older, how about medicare insurance for up to 26 years? Then the group of Americans who have to buy from insurance corporations is smaller/healthier and premium costs should be lower.


Obama was a moderate and Biden is too but they both listen to everyone. Back when Obama admin worked on the ACA bill there was the "age 50 and up medicare insurance" part that was removed from the bill so it would pass and be law. This time because of the passion of progressive voices like Sanders...it won't be so easy for Republicans to obstruct positive change.

[HarlanPepper]

81. If they have the senate majority, I can assure you, it will be very easy for them to obstruct.

In what world, would any of them care what you or I think about these issues? People have dinged Biden for saying he would like to work with Republicans. Fine. But the "Republicans wouldn't dare obstruct positive change" meme is beyond ludicrous. Of course they would. They've been doing it for years. See: Merick Garland. See: 2008-16.

[LanternWaste]

41. Yours being the insulting behavior you consistently point to as "how is this winning over voters"?

"His detractors do too, they just pretend not to."

(there's a space just below this one, free of charge, to type in a distinction lacking a relevant difference... maintaining that pretense of oppression and self-righteousness must be done at all costs)

[treestar]

42. You still need a bill from Congress

"Fighting" for it won't get it. Any politician's "promises" are just that, saying they will sign the bill or vote for it. But they could be in the minority. That is fine, but people don't realize that and then claim the politician is "corrupt" or a let-down because it didn't actually happen.

Also those who vote for Biden/Hillary or whoever are not thinking that they will be fighting for the wealthy and the corporations. That is oversimplification at its finest.

[Happy Hoosier]

46. Bernie is a great candidate if, and only if...

.. you are simply willing to be lied to. You KNOW he can't deliver what he is promising. You KNOW when he says "we will do these things," You know he can't.

But his supporters seem to be more interested in aspiration than practicalities.

I mean, convert to a M4A in 4 years? No one really believes that can happen. It would take 10 years at the least. We're talking about a radical transformation of the economy.

[NCProgressive]

50. ++++++

[ismnotwasm]

47. Actually I do understand it

I did some research on Bernie at one time. Actually a lot. His math never added up. It didn’t seem to matter. That was off putting.

You know, He has tons of young supporters right now who understand that social justice is different than economic justice. It’s kind of too bad, because I remember being horrified people didn’t understand this. Bernies own supporters have come around. At least the ones under 25 (purely anecdotal, I have no stats)


I believe that Bernie believes in what he’s doing. That principles over substance will change the face of American politics as we know it. That repeating things will get people to look at legislation and judge accordingly, leading people to make the right choices to help each other out and eradicate billionaires or even the idea of concentrated wealth. Spread wealth out and make things like education and healthcare “free”

No I get get Bernie this time a lot better.


I still don’t want “ideas”, ones he claims are “his”, to be the basis of passable legislation. When down to 2 choices, choice was easy for me.

[NCProgressive]

49. Fighting for the unattainable and undeliverable

is the same as promising the moon

[Laelth]

51. I still want THE WHOLE CHICKEN!

The Republicans aren't going to give it to me. I have to rely on the Democratic Party to do it.

Bernie, at least, told me I deserved the whole chicken. That matters to me.

-Laelth

[Gothmog]

87. Switzerland rejects single-payer in landslide, keeps its version of Obamacare

Link to tweet

Swiss voters resoundingly rejected a proposal to move the country to a single-payer system on Sunday. Instead, the country will keep its private health insurance system, which looks a whole lot like Obamacare.

Two-thirds of Swiss voters opposed creating a state-run health plan in the national referendum. The issue was put to a vote after Swiss campaigners gathered more than 100,000 signatures, the threshold for getting a national vote; some initial polls in 2013 had shown strong support for a state-run system.

For a country with a relatively small population (8 million), Switzerland comes up a shocking amount in debates over American health care. That's probably because the Swiss health care system looks pretty similar to the one Obamacare sets up.

Since 1996, Switzerland has required all residents purchase coverage through an individual mandate. "If you move to Switzerland, you have three months to buy coverage and it's retroactive to your arrival," Aaron Carroll explains in his excellent video primer on the Swiss health care system.

Swiss residents buy coverage from private health insurance plans, who compete for their business. The average monthly premium for adults, in American dollars, was $329 in 2013. There are no pre-existing conditions in Switzerland; insurers are only allowed to vary premiums based on age, charging different rates for children under 18, young adults between 19 and 25, and adults over 25.

[nycbos]

52. Ha ha ha.

Glad I finished my coffee before I read this.

[amuse bouche]

53. A hard pass from me for so many reasons

[33taw]

55. Achieving things in government requires incremental steps towards success.

I don’t see Bernie as a negotiator or he would have accomplished more in the senate.

[MrsCoffee]

61. Everything for free, vote for me!

There is a sucker born every minute.

[awesomerwb1]

62. LOL

Did you work on that all night?

Won't be long before Bernard will be promising free scooters and cars!! Free marihuana!!

[democrattotheend]

65. Exactly

I think this is something a lot of people misunderstand. I get it because I'm a lawyer who often engages in settlement negotiations. The first few times I did it, I took the approach Obama took with the ACA - go in with something reasonable and hope it can get done without a million rounds. That occasionally works, but most of the time what would happen is the case would end up settling for less because I started too low, and the other side still took as many rounds but just started at a lower number. Sometimes I think if Obama had started with M4A, he might have gotten a better ACA, though it's certainly possible he'd have gotten nothing at all.

That's what AOC meant last month, too, when she said that even if Bernie didn't get M4A passed, if he started there he'd likely at least get a public option.

It reminds me of my favorite quote: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."

I wish Bernie would articulate this a little better, though. But I don't think he wants to. He's too afraid of disillusionment among his most fervent but naive supporters.

[Dem4Life1102]

66. The term "fight for" when used by politician

just means they never accomplished or know they can't accomplish anything.

[BeckyDem]

71. The Democratic leadership should fight for Medicare for All and the Green New Deal.

THAT WOULD BE UNITY. That they refuse and the reasons for it are understood by all who supported Warren and now Sanders.

[unitedwethrive]

72. But it comes across as bribery...offering free stuff in exchange for a vote.

It reminds me of kids running for middle school student council...they promise pie-in-the-sky things, like free candy for everyone or no homework, with no realistic expectation of those promises being fulfilled.

It seems like he is just insulting my intelligence. If he is really just trying to incrementally work towards his goals, then he needs to tell people what the steps are to achieving them.

[brooklynite]

74. Pass that on to the voters and see how they respond...

Personally, I think you'll have the same problem as trying to convince them of the subtlety that he's only a "DEMOCRATIC" Socialist...

[highplainsdem]

75. We're not electing a Dreamer-in-Chief.

Most people will NOT give Sanders points for making lots of promises he has no chance of delivering on.

And people who aren't swayed by impossible promises will notice that Biden's agenda is very progressive.

[Botany]

76. FYI Bernie is not going to be the nominee nor the President

n/t

[beachbumbob]

80. we need no fighting we need actual stuff done, exactly what sanders fails to get done

[Gothmog]

85. From day 1, Bernie built a campaign to appeal to 30%.

Link to tweet

So if, from day one, they didn’t think they needed more than 30%, why would they actually run a campaign and build a culture designed to win more than his 30% ceiling? As that article notes, even way back in early 2019, Sanders was picking fights and creating enemies out of potential allies.

We saw that in Sanders’ refusal to broaden his message to bring in more people. When I said exactly that on Meet the Press, that “the problem with Bernie Sanders is that he has the exact same message he had four years ago” when he lost to Hillary Clinton 60-40, the response from the Sanders campaign was, well, this:

Link to tweet

If your message wasn’t a majority message four years ago, and you want to win, wouldn’t you tweak it? They didn’t. Proudly and explicitly did not tweak it. They had zero intention of growing new support by broadening and expanding their message. (Sanders famously refused to even inject more biography into his stump speech to humanize him more.)

Sanders and his campaign saw that their ceiling was 30%, and they built an entire strategy around winning with 30%. That means that instead of seeing the other 70% of voters as allies, they saw them as THE ENEMY. Even when there was ideological alignment.

[Gothmog]

86. The Gauzy Myth of the Sanders Campaign

I never considered sanders to be a serious candidate. sanders has zero major legislative accomplishments in large part because none of his fellow Democrats in Congress support his agenda. I do not understand the concept of a voter revolution . Without such a magical voter revolution, none of sanders' agenda could be adopted and I am not comfortable in relying on a magical voter revolution

I am not only one to doubt the seriousness of sanders as a candidate https://newrepublic.com/article/156883/gauzy-myth-sanders-campaign

After Tuesday night, the undeniable truth is that the entire Sanders campaign was predicated on a gauzy myth. If there were ever hidden armies of would-be Democratic voters yearning for a visionary presidential nominee uncontaminated by the compromises of life, then these Bernie Brigades still remain well camouflaged.

Sure, as Sanders stressed in his Wednesday statement, some of his policies are popular with primary voters. In Michigan, exit polls showed that replacing private health insurance with a government program had the support of nearly 60 percent of the people who went to the polls on Tuesday. But since the February 29 South Carolina primary, most Democratic primary voters have been unwilling to buy the entire Sanders package: politically unattainable goals, such as canceling $1.6 trillion in college debt, combined with attacks on corporate interests and the “billionaire class.”

After Sanders’s two presidential runs, voters possess a pretty clear-eyed sense of who he is. He is a gadfly, a goad, and a left-wing Pied Piper. These can be valuable traits in politics since the moderate, accommodationist wing of the Democratic Party sometimes needs outside pressure to force it to focus on causes larger than the next election. But Sanders was never cut out to be a traditional president forging alliances, brokering compromises, and dealing with the messiness of governing in a bitterly divided democracy. That simply isn’t Bernie’s skill set. And his lifelong rigidity would have become an even larger governing problem if he ever succeeded Trump as president.

What Democratic voters have created by rallying around Biden is the American equivalent of the Popular Front, which, in the 1930s, was a broad, multiparty alliance against fascism in France and other democratic countries. The exit polls from Michigan echo a sentiment found in almost all primaries—voters, by a 58-to-37 percent margin, want a candidate who can defeat Trump more than someone who agrees with them on all issues.....

Sanders will undoubtedly fight on in the hopes that he can shape the Democratic platform. The problem with that strategy is that, even if Biden were to commit to supporting, say, Medicare for All, as a price for party harmony in Milwaukee, it would be a meaningless pledge. Currently, fewer than one-third of the Democrats in the Senate support eliminating private insurance. And if Chuck Schumer succeeds in getting the chamber back in Democratic hands, the new additions to their ranks are likely to be moderates like John Hickenlooper of Colorado, Mark Kelly of Arizona, and Steve Bullock of Montana, none of whom support Medicare for All.

There was never going to be a magical voter revolution and there was never any substance to sanders' campaign or any chance that sanders' agenda would be adopted in the real world

[Skidmore]

88. Sanders hs failed

to present bills that specifically present his agenda in both houses of Congress over a thirty year period. Why should he start now?

[Vivienne235729]

89. So Bernie is saying he will talk the talk but not actually walk the walk.

I would much rather have someone give me a moon rock than someone who promises the entire moon but is unable to give me anything at all. A rock is still better than nothing.