One of my favorite senators doing her job...she was a great candidate and my second choice.

[Demsrule86]

You are the best Sen. Warren...fighting for all of us on the Senate floor...what a contrast to Sanders who is in Vermont having music parties combined with his riveting stump speech...Do your job Senator Sanders. Oh could you spare ten minutes from you busy schedule to concede so we can get on with the business of crushing the most dangerous president in history and electing a Democratic Senate while holding the House. Asking for a friend...the American people who deserve better.

Link to tweet

[DanTex]

1. She was my second choice also. Not quite as solid on progressive values as Bernie, but still

very strong.

[Demsrule86]

4. She is doing her job Dan. Bernie has lost all credibility for me with his refusal to get out of

the primary. If this continues, he will cost us the General and give Trump four more years...once upon a time in 16, I voted for Sanders in Ohio...yep I did. My hubs and kids all did. It was a family thing we all went down and voted together. Not many know that. When it was clear that Hillary had won, I turned to her and worked my ass off to elect her. I liked both of them back then. I don't like Bernie anymore. I have never thought he did enough in the 16 General to help elect Clinton. And now in the darkest time I have ever seen in this country, It is all about him. He sits in Vermont playing disk jockey with a little stump speech thrown in...unbelievable. Millions in Ohio are now without jobs including my husband. Thousands will die. Sanders should concede so we can get on with the general. Stay well Dan.

[DanTex]

10. And Warren has lost a lot of credibility with me, with a number of actions.

The Bernie-blaming on this board and elsewhere is getting ludicrous. He wasn't responsible for the 2016 loss, and he's certainly not responsible for the coronavirus response. In fact, he's pivoted his campaign to focus on CV, including raising $2 mil dollars for relief. That won't stop the people who reflexively hate Bernie from continuing to hate him, of course. But it will expose that irrational hatred for what it is.

What Bernie is doing is fighting for progressive policies, same thing he's done consistently his entire career. It's never been about him, it's always been about policies.

[The Magistrate]

11. It Has Never Been About Anything But 'Bernie', Sir

Nor has the man achieved a thing for 'progressive policies' in Congress or the Senate. You cannot point to one bit of legislation securing such the man has written and steered into law.

And he does bear a good share of responsibility for the eventual outcome of the 2016 contest.

The man is a blow-hard, a mere bag of self-serving bean-breeze.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[DanTex]

14. Simply not true. His career proves that.

Yes, he has achieved a lot in congress, it's absurd to say he hasn't achieved a thing. Even with the political tides rolling continually to the right, he managed to affect legislation and get many amendments passed. Of course it's lonely standing on principle. Of course it's easier to go along with the crowd into disastrous wars and corporate giveaways. The fact that he never did that is a good thing, not a bad thing.

If it was about Bernie, instead of standing on principle for all those years, he could easily have gotten "in" with the centrist/corporate establishment by voting with the herd on things like the Iraq War or trade agreements, DOMA, and countless other horrible bills. That's the path of least resistance, going with the flow and the lobbyists.

And he has zero responsibility for the 2016 outcome, obviously. He fully supported the nominee, and there was less cross-over voting in 2016 than there was in 2008.

[The Magistrate]

16. Nonesense, Sir --- He Has Not Achieved A Thing

He has said some things now and then, often things I approve of personally, but that means nothing to me in the absence of achievement. When appeal is made to 'standing on principle' I know I am in the presence of purblind fool. And Sanders did not do what was necessary in 2016. Sanders did not apologize for his smears, Sanders did not admit he smeared Mrs. Clinton with baseless charges of 'corruption', Sanders did not acknowledge in his primary campaign he had given 'bipartisan' cover to charges soon to be made by the Republicans. Sanders' 'campaigning' for Mrs. Clinton consisted of little more than his usual epater les bourgeoisie crusade against the 'Establishment' with the word 'Democratic' left out, in a manner something like the way an old bluesman will not pronounce some word or other in the cadence, leaving it to his audience to supply the sound in their minds, and thus join more firmly to his mood and his song. Sanders' speeches were not celebrations of Mrs. Clinton's looked for advent to the Presidency, nor urgent rallyings of his followers to her banner. Given the man's honest views and principles, how could they be? Do not think for a moment the monumental insincerity of his 'campaigning' for Mrs. Clinton was not noticed.



"Saints should be considered guilty till proved innocent."




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[DanTex]

18. Simply false. He's achieved a huge amount.

You can ignore all the amendments he's passed, but that doesn't make them disappear. You can ignore the fact that nobody had heard of "Single Payer" 5 years ago, and now the majority of the American Public supports it. Or the fact that $15 minimum wage was "unicorns" 5 years ago, and now even centrists like Joe Biden support it. The list goes on and on. Bernie has likely been the second most influential Democratic politician in the 21st century, second to Obama.

Regarding 2016, not only did Bernie do more rallies for HRC than she did for Obama in 08, but also Bernie supporters in 2016 voted for HRC over Trump in greater numbers than HRC supporters voted for Obama over McCain. These are simple, obvious facts, and it's a testament to the level of irrational hatred that centrists have for Bernie's progressive ideals that people continue to ignore them and try to blame Bernie for the outcome of 2016.

As to the value of "standing on principle", that depends on where you are standing. To you, it's what "purblind fools" talk about. But, say, to the millions of Iraqis that were killed since 2003, they probably have a different take on the importance of not voting for a senseless war simply because that's what the establishment was pushing at the time.

[The Magistrate]

20. Thank You For The Laugh, Sir

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[DanTex]

21. I take it by your non-response that you don't refute any of the facts in my last post. Thanks!

[The Magistrate]

23. You May Take It, Sir, For Acknowledgement You Cannot Be Reached By Reason

And that I have better uses for time at present.

"A rebel without a clue."

[DanTex]

25. Another dodge. I guess when confronted by facts, that's your go-to move.

If you become interested in facts at some point in the future, here they are:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=683066

[zonkers]

44. Give it up Dan. In these scary times, some DUers need a boogyman.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

45. And some people know when they're being trolled n/t

[bubbazero]

35. one small correction-

I first heard the phrase single payer health care in the 1970s--young teen--when reading about and discussing various health care proposals discussed by Roosevelt. President Theodore Roosevelt.

[Demsrule86]

40. We don't have single payer or even a public option, we don't have a 15 minimum, and as for the war.

I hold Bush responsible for that and the left /Greens helped elect him.

[DanTex]

42. Great examples of the need to elect more progressive Dems.

Also climate change.

[Demsrule86]

47. Progressives as you call them...I call that subset Left/Greens caused it to happen by not supporting

Democrats...it is their own fault that Climate went nowhere...did they think Bush would address that or Trump? No of course they wouldn't but ....blah blah the parties are the same...but they are not and those you call progressive have all but destroyed the movement they claim to believe in and support-the my way or the highway aspect of these groups causes us to lose policy as they constantly stab Democrats in the back and elect Republicans. Gore, Kerry, and lastly Clinton were destroyed by this group. Obama was kneecapped both in 10 and in 14. The right wing court that these folks helped create by voting for Stein instead of Hillary will stop much progressive policy in the years to come. It is a damn shame. I am more and more convinced we need to build a coalition that can win without this electorally destructive segment...Left /Greens

[W_HAMILTON]

12. He's showing on a national stage why he's been a legislative failure for progressives for 30 years.

[DanTex]

15. He's been a huge legislative success for progressives.

He's passed more amendments for many years than anyone. Of course, he doesn't have his name on things like NAFTA or the Iraq War, or a lot of other horrible bills that the establishment said were great ideas at the time. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

People now are realizing that Bernie was right about all those things the whole time.

[The Magistrate]

17. If That Were True, Sir, Sanders Would Have Got More Votes

He has done nothing, and no one wants him.

[DanTex]

19. The two are entirely unrelated.

A lot of people want Bernie, in fact, the majority of Dem voters prefer Bernie on policy, just that many of them think Biden is more electable.

[The Magistrate]

22. Of Course That Are Related, Sir

It is nonesense to pretend otherwise. Support is measured in votes. Peopl know Sanders cannot secure passage for any of his policies, and so his support for them does not matter one whit.


"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[DanTex]

24. He got the second-most primary votes, you realize that, right?

By your logic, Warren, Klobuchar, Booker, Harris, Gillibrand, etc. are even more worthless than Bernie. LOL.

I seriously don't understand why you hate Bernie this much.

[The Magistrate]

26. Again, Sir, I Appreciate You Comedy Stylings

Will you be here till Tuesday? I will be sure and try the veal, and to tip my waiter.

[DanTex]

27. Again! LOL. When confronted with facts, you dodge!

[Demsrule86]

38. He is losing by double digits...so if they like the policy which I doubt, than they don't like

Bernie...one or the other.

[Demsrule86]

39. Really, I hear this but what significance do these amendments have...no one even remembers them.

I assume you are speaking about the house as I have not heard anyone speak well of him in the Senate.

[DanTex]

41. Again by "no one" you are talking about "centrists".

Amendments, by nature, are smaller things, like the funding he secured for community healthcare clinics (as a Senator). He also had a role pushing back against the Social Security cuts that Obama proposed as part of the "grand bargain." And so on.

The whole "he gets nothing done" smear is a myth concocted by centrists because his voting record is the strongest of anyone in the race from the start. Like, is it better to successfully push the Iraq War Resolution, or to unsuccessfully oppose it? Obviously, it's better to oppose it, but all the centrist pundits smearing Bernie were in support of it and every other bad bill that Bernie opposed. So the centrists smearing Bernie want to ignore the content of the votes and just argue that passing things is all that matters.

When the majority of congress is voting for bad bills, then yeah, it's easy to "get things done" if you just float with the whims of public opinion, but Bernie didn't do that.

[Demsrule86]

49. Insults will get you nowhere...there it is again the old 'if you disagree than you are not a 'real'

Democrat...either establishment, or centrist or what have you...I have not seen anyone post these wonderful policy amendments...so please share...send me a link where he was on the winning side and the amendments he added actually added became law...thanks in advance.

[DanTex]

50. "Centrist" is not an insult, it's a description. Why do you think it's an insult?

Another thing I don't understand. If centrists actually thought the Iraq War, deregulation, the bankruptcy bill, etc. were bad ideas, why did they vote for them? Why don't they like being reminded of all those centrist policies? And why don't centrists want to be called "centrist"?

If people don't want to be called centrists, maybe they shouldn't support centrist policies, don't you think?

Regarding Bernie's accomplishments, google is your friend, but I'll get you started with an article on his work on health clinics.

Over the years, Sanders has tucked away funding for health centers in appropriation bills signed by George W. Bush, into Barack Obama’s stimulus program, and through the earmarking process. But his biggest achievement came in 2010 through the Affordable Care Act. In a series of high-stakes legislative maneuvers, Sanders struck a deal to include $11 billion for health clinics in the law.

The result has made an indelible mark on American health care, extending the number of people served by clinics from 18 million before the ACA to an expected 28 million next year.

https://theintercept.com/2015/07/06/gop-senators-support-sanders-obamacare-expansion/

[Demsrule86]

32. It is a matter of opinion whether Donald Trump would be president today had Sanders aided

Clinton sufficiently. I won't change your mind, nor will you change mine...as for his campaign pivoting...he doesn't need to pivot, he needs to concede..fundraising is a big problem this year and we can't start raising money for Biden and for down ballot races until Sander leaves the field. Sanders could continue to raise money for charity...nothing stops him after he conceded. He must go because Dan at the end of the day, Sanders isn't important anymore, beating Trump should be our only concern a this point and you know what I say is true.

[DanTex]

33. But it's not a matter of opinion that Bernie did more rallies for HRC than HRC did for Obama.

Nor is it a matter of opinion that more HRC voters in 2008 voted for McCain than Bernie voters went for Trump. I've seen a lot of people make the accusation that Bernie cost Hillary the 2016 election. Zero of those people have accepted those facts and responded to them. They all just ignore them. Maybe you can be the first.

I can't see how Bernie campaigning helps Trump. He's not running a negative campaign, he's pushing a progressive agenda, which is a good thing to do. The coronavirus has basically showed everyone that we should have had progressive policies like universal healthcare, paid sick leave, etc. to begin with, not just in response to a crisis. Bernie's message is more relevant than ever right now.

[Demsrule86]

37. Now that I can speak to...not only did Hillary go all out but so did Bill...and he was very

successful...it was a full on effort...not the halfhearted crap I witnessed in 16.... I work all the elections you know...Hillary went all out to get her supporters to support Pres. Obama. Based on my experience during the 2016 campaign,Sanders didn't do this going so far to say it was 'her job to win over his supporters'.

[zonkers]

43. This.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I'm beginning to wonder if Sanders might have cv, or symptoms of it,

or has tested positive. I hope not, but if that's the case he ought to 'fess up.

[Demsrule86]

6. Maybe he has been exposed...it is possible. He wouldn't want to admit it after his heart attack

since he still seems to believe he can win the primary or maybe the supers will hand it to him...who knows?

[EarnestPutz]

3. This crisis that we face over a viral pandemic is going to produce a few heroes....

....and Senator Warren is going to be near the top of the list, so much so that a lot of Democrats, no matter how successful Joe Biden may prove to be, are going to regret wringing their hands and fretting about her "electability".

[Demsrule86]

7. I still believe Biden is our best bet to take Trump out...but I admire Sen. Warren a great deal.

[MineralMan]

5. She was also my second choice, after Joe Biden.

[Demsrule86]

8. Mine too MM. I have a great deal of respect for Sen. Warren and I like her very much.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. My first choice. What a warrior!

[saidsimplesimon]

28. I agree. Senator Warren

has "dusted the past disappointments from her shoulders".

[The Magistrate]

13. Far And Away The Best Candidate In The Field, Ma'am

Three cheers for the good Professor Warren!



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[BlueMTexpat]

36. My thoughts too! eom

[MustLoveBeagles]

29. She wasn't my first choice or even second but I respect her

I also like her a lot. I love Bailey the burrito thief.

[Demsrule86]

46. Baily is adorable...love dogs...

[still_one]

30. Saw her on Bloomberg this morning. She was great!!!

[voteearlyvoteoften]

31. Nevertheless she persisted

💙💙💙

[Turin_C3PO]

34. Yes Warren's great.

My positions on issues align more with hers than Biden’s but I’ve always supported Biden because I believe he’s the man to beat Trump and get us out of the numerous messes he’s created.

[William769]

48. Kick & highly recommended.

[Pillow talk]

51. if she wasn't so many folks second choice. nope

[FM123]

52. Thank you Elizabeth for all you do for us.

When I hear that expression "not me, us " it actually makes me think of YOU.

[Hortensis]

53. Much of the MSM are calling THIS congressional squabbling

in outrageously dishonest false equalization, while the corrupt Repubs try to use the emergency to rev up their giant sucking operation.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet