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Emrys

(8,089 posts)
40. Never imagine you're alone in this sort of soul-searching
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:55 PM
Nov 7

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)

My own circumstances are trivial in the grand scheme of things, but they rhyme.

In the UK, we just went through an election where a Tory Party that had proven itself functionally worthless, corrupt and worse over more than a decade was supplanted by a Labour Party that had been too long ossified in opposition and caught up in dismembering itself of any radicalism, spurred on by corrupting outside interests and finance, and even in the aftermath of its victory (and please believe me when I say we have our own problems with an electoral system that often throws up over-flattering results for the victor, leaving many unrepresented) is depressingly predictably flat-footed, gobsmackingly lacking in vision and empathy, in the pocket of Big Money, and terrifyingly setting the scene for a rightist takeover as this new electoral cycle plays out.

I live in a part of the UK, Scotland, that has a comparatively functional government. It's not perfect by any means, but it's streets ahead of what Westminster offers. It's penny-poor at the level of party funding and the money sloshing around its officeholders, and all the better for that. It faces an almost universally hostile media that downplays its successes and its worthwhile initiatives that could set a positive model for the UK as a whole, and overplays its glitches and failings. And yes, by any meaningful measure, it's woke, and unashamedly so. This in a country whose international image is superficially dominated by macho gruff maleness and illiberal use of the C-word.

The SNP, of which I'm a member, had a serious setback in terms of Westminster politics at the last general election. The Labour Party in Scotland was given free passes that are low-key Trumpish in nature - getting away with many, many lies unchallenged and airy handwaving at unworkable policy commitments they abandoned just as airily once elected, all because they painted a "reality" that was less complex than what's really happening, and hence more palatable to too many.

What I see around me in the UK as a whole is a not insignificant body of people who are bloody sensible and well-intentioned and see through a lot of the nonsense that fills our airwaves and media on a daily basis. They are clear-eyed despite the noise. But there are many who are just plain lazy.

Lazy. Ripe for the picking by those with glib answers to whatever problems they are afflicted by, easily distracted by the latest scandal or just so caught up in the grind of their daily lives (which excuses some of my charge of laziness) that a grander picture is not something that interests or is urgent to them unless it's to spill and share simplistic bigotry yadayada in their social settings.

As I think may happen with Trump this next time around, Labour here has had no meaningful honeymoon period, and polls of favourability ratings so far have been atrocious. We do have, lurking in the wings, a force which is downright sinister in Nigel Farage's latest grand scam, the Reform Party, which finally gained a handful of elected seats in the last election. Skipping conveniently over Brexit - Farage's main mission in life - which has proven and is still proving to be as much of a disaster as we opponents of it always warned it would, they've been allowed to just handwave it away, and they've cornered Labour to the extent that it dismisses any idea of meaningful rapprochement with the EU, without which we're economically fucked, and even more so with Trump ready to wage protectionism on a grand scale. The fear is that if Labour screw up as badly as they're shaping to at the moment, they will open the gates for Reform and its fellow travellers to take power in the next general election.

Meanwhile, in my country, Scotland, many of us have a vision for a small, modern standalone state with its own distinct internationalist and social democratic values that could shy away from this rightward shift. But we're not going to be given the chance to make that choice again in the foreseeable future.

Trapped as we feel - and we're going to be as subject to the baleful transatlantic winds from the next Trump regime as anywhere else, no doubt with Labour waqging its tail abjectly in its wake, as it has done before - I wouldn't trade our place for yours, though I absolutely feel sympathy and solidarity.

Recommendations

11 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom JoseBalow Nov 7 #1
Sometimes you lose the patient. IrishAfricanAmerican Nov 7 #3
Quite true JoseBalow Nov 7 #4
This felt more like a death knell than rock bottom. Initech Nov 7 #47
I'm having an epiphany ... rebirth not hate LSparkle Nov 8 #161
Usually after a plague, there's a period of enlightenment. Initech Nov 8 #163
Like Nazi Germany gerryatwork Nov 7 #101
Thank you. FWIW, I completely agree. NewHendoLib Nov 7 #2
Agree completely. Here is Rove(?) spelling it out explicitly 20 years ago. dgauss Nov 7 #5
Rove was also author Redmap, the Republican Party plan to use gerrymandering for permanent control of government. Lonestarblue Nov 7 #64
Let's not forget Rove's involment in Bush 2000 election theft. GoreWon2000 Nov 7 #79
And John Roberts, Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett too Attilatheblond Nov 8 #137
It's called a quid pro quo GoreWon2000 Nov 9 #164
Well...that was scary as hell. BComplex Nov 7 #106
I definitely agree that curated spaces and echo chambers have contributed to her loss. orange jar Nov 7 #6
& it's reached almost insurmountable proportions. According to canvassers, the misinformation this election was insane, Native Nov 7 #18
Oh, I wouldn't doubt it. orange jar Nov 7 #24
Agreed... just to add WarGamer Nov 7 #7
I don't know about that. A lot of people are saying it's pandered too much to the left/progressives of the party. Native Nov 7 #29
This old white lady watches football mnhtnbb Nov 7 #57
I would like examples of how the Dem party has pandered to the left - TBF Nov 7 #89
sure, i cant remember them all, but one for sure that was mentioned was the transgender surgeries for inmates. Native Nov 7 #93
She REALLY should have hit-back on the transgender "prison surgery" thing, Jack Valentino Nov 8 #134
But it's not true. summer_in_TX Nov 8 #114
then explain blue collar America leaving the Party? WarGamer Nov 8 #118
When Biden made sure they got COVID relief funds, he should have put his name on it like Trump did. summer_in_TX Nov 8 #119
Trump didn't go after these folks... he had them Jack Bone Nov 8 #121
Those differences in voting by income are all small. It's not a big factor. muriel_volestrangler Nov 8 #123
I think the income voting differences are mostly related to education (which trends to result in higher income), deurbano Nov 8 #145
Saw an article this morning (sorry don't remember where) that said Tadpole Raisin Nov 8 #127
The signs were there. Biden has been a great president. The economy is doing great. Yet most people don't agree. Doodley Nov 7 #8
Do you think Trump's assassination attempt(s) ultimately helped him? orange jar Nov 7 #11
I'm sure it did. It was an important part of their campaign. Our household of two received a dozen direct mail Doodley Nov 7 #15
And people bought into it...... Butterflylady Nov 7 #25
I remember a Dem Operative at the time MustLoveBeagles Nov 7 #48
If a supernatural being saved Trump from death, it was LUCIFER and not God. Jack Valentino Nov 8 #136
No! Rebl2 Nov 7 #32
It didn't ForgedCrank Nov 7 #45
it definitely solidified GOP support for him LymphocyteLover Nov 8 #126
And yet, the Dems didn't continually publish the positive news, buy ads, etc. That's on us. SharonAnn Nov 7 #17
You probably didn't see them dickthegrouch Nov 7 #98
There's no question that's part of it. returnee Nov 7 #9
It's the conspiracy theories LeftInTX Nov 7 #12
Good point. Trump maximized the racist, homophobic, transphobic, mysogynist vote. Kamala had to overcome that. Doodley Nov 7 #13
❤️ littlemissmartypants Nov 7 #10
Really good thoughts Johnny2X2X Nov 7 #14
Along those same lines people expected prices to actually drop to pre-Covid levels groundloop Nov 7 #38
Prices *are* higher than they were 4 years ago intrepidity Nov 8 #157
Finally, someone explaining how targeting works. We're an old group and very defensive to boot. Explanations like this Native Nov 7 #16
If no one's told you lately that you're a genius, EarlG, elbow them in the ribs (gently but definitely). jaxexpat Nov 7 #19
Dems needs to match the right's online media ecosystem. TRHST82 Nov 7 #20
Hope our record with talk radio isn't an indicator KPN Nov 7 #36
It is the perfect indicator intrepidity Nov 8 #158
Buyer's remorse will set in for a lot of people. ananda Nov 7 #21
I disagree. There will never be a free and fair election n/t Vogon_Glory Nov 8 #151
That's already the case for this election. ananda Nov 8 #162
And this algorithmic messaging is now automated and will grow and learn erronis Nov 7 #22
A piece of the loss, yes. I agree with you on that. Passages Nov 7 #23
Has DU become its own bubble? leftstreet Nov 7 #26
DU has always been a bubble! EarlG Nov 7 #58
I should have refreshed before posting. haha TwilightZone Nov 7 #66
Lol true enough leftstreet Nov 7 #69
I do agree that it's good to get multiple perspectives on issues sometimes COL Mustard Nov 7 #72
With a notable exception for the Vance couch thing unblock Nov 7 #77
No. LarryNM Nov 8 #142
Earl, what about a small siloed section of DU where the rules are relaxed somewhat? intrepidity Nov 8 #160
DU has always been its own bubble. TwilightZone Nov 7 #65
All places are bubbles to some extent jfz9580m Nov 7 #105
+1 leftstreet Nov 7 #108
Thank you for reading leftstreet :).nt jfz9580m Nov 7 #110
the creators of AI KT2000 Nov 7 #27
I don't know Dem4life1234 Nov 7 #28
He gained DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 7 #39
It makes a bit of sense for first time voters under 25 Trekologer Nov 7 #88
Confirmation bias can be a dangerous thing Ocelot II Nov 7 #30
"misinformation peddled on an industrial scale" BoRaGard Nov 7 #31
We just got some stunning family news from some in-laws: almost the whole younger gen voted Trump Hekate Nov 7 #33
Did they say why? yardwork Nov 7 #35
i heard today (either from one of the shows on wcpt orleans Nov 7 #61
??! Sparkly Nov 7 #97
they're taking their masks off and showing what they really are nt orleans Nov 7 #103
This is what blows my mind mnhtnbb Nov 7 #62
They didn't care he's an Ajudicate Rapist 34 Counts a Felon.. a Convicted Fraud Cha Nov 7 #112
Gen Z follows Barron Trump and podcasters Maggiemayhem Nov 8 #131
I'm still looking at the returns and I tend to agree... yardwork Nov 7 #34
Right wing radio and trumps own rants Artistree22 Nov 7 #37
At this point, it's more RW podcasting and streaming Algernon Moncrieff Nov 7 #60
Never imagine you're alone in this sort of soul-searching Emrys Nov 7 #40
Precisely this: geniph Nov 7 #68
Thank you for your post LittleGirl Nov 8 #141
You're very welcome Emrys Nov 8 #143
As soon as Brexit was determined LittleGirl Nov 8 #149
Well said especially this .... live love laugh Nov 7 #41
AI has enhanced the methods of mind control for profit bucolic_frolic Nov 7 #42
"people's opinions were already baked in" BumRushDaShow Nov 7 #43
Thanks! It's very cathartic to read this analysis. Mike 03 Nov 7 #44
"The playbook is 100 years old but the technology is brand new." dgauss Nov 7 #111
My Wife and I have been discussing this exactly as you have described for a couple of days now. I agree completely with marked50 Nov 7 #46
The TOP (Trump's Oleaginous Party) can't help but fuck with Social Security and Obamacare. LudwigPastorius Nov 7 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Ursus Arctos Nov 7 #55
100% agree until last point Cosmocat Nov 7 #50
Ah This explains Peter Theil and the Silicon Valley Divas bronxiteforever Nov 7 #51
One thing the democrats absolutely have to stop with: Initech Nov 7 #52
Thank you so much, EarlG, for explaining that so thoroughly. We have all seen it niyad Nov 7 #53
I agree with your analysis. I still believe that racism and sexism played a role but so did social media tulipsandroses Nov 7 #54
There will be midterms? Algernon Moncrieff Nov 7 #56
For me, to break through the information bubble, it came down to critical thinking (education) ffr Nov 7 #59
Here's what I don't understand anobserver2 Nov 7 #63
I am certain they knew genxlib Nov 8 #135
This is 1000% the message I have been spouting for years. genxlib Nov 8 #138
Resetting the playing field must become resetting the battlefield. Jit423 Nov 7 #67
Words ... matter Metaphorical Nov 7 #70
The difference? Aussie105 Nov 7 #71
A big shocking event, a meteor hitting Earth seems about right BigmanPigman Nov 7 #73
Russia perfected this under Stalin! cilla4progress Nov 7 #74
Uncle Smart Ass Uncle Smart Ass Nov 7 #75
I'm hearing this over and over from party folks, AllyCat Nov 7 #76
I agree that buyer's remorse is going to set in quickly Dem4life1970 Nov 7 #78
Mark Zuckerberg too IbogaProject Nov 7 #80
I agree with what you're saying. GoreWon2000 Nov 7 #81
This is a symptom not the problem Fearless Nov 7 #82
Thanks - I agree. Pinback Nov 7 #83
That is Linda ladeewolf Nov 7 #84
I agree, EarlG. I've seen discussions of this on Twitter. From Asha Rangappa this morning: highplainsdem Nov 7 #85
Hmm. I have a quibble with how you're presenting your point. love_katz Nov 7 #86
Thought-provoking OP. I still think we've got a lot of folks who just won't vote for a woman, TBF Nov 7 #87
Misinformation peddled on an industrial scale. DeeDeeNY Nov 7 #90
Agree with everything you said EarlG jfz9580m Nov 7 #91
Good food for thought. Sparkly Nov 7 #92
So, what we really need is a bigger blowhorn.... Hugin Nov 7 #94
Inadequate messaging has been our issue for years now. SunSeeker Nov 7 #95
He will fuck up on a grand scale before the mid terms orangecrush Nov 7 #96
Bubbles suck The Mouth Nov 7 #99
Our reality: Living inside a conspiracy theory. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 7 #100
You are very correct about the algorithms moniss Nov 7 #102
I sure remember those times Ligyron Nov 8 #133
Yes indeed and a great movie from that time and moniss Nov 8 #153
If only Kamala had done what Trump did. Aussie105 Nov 7 #104
THANK YOU! You are absolutely correct! Silver Gaia Nov 7 #107
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 7 #109
What I keep hearing from trump voters proud patriot Nov 8 #113
My area (DMV) is receiving racist text messages Maggiemayhem Nov 8 #132
how long before repukes crash the economy? Skittles Nov 8 #115
Read a great thread by a Brit about the analogies to Brexit on Twitter today. summer_in_TX Nov 8 #116
The incremental, stealth takeover by oligarchs is now open and in its final race to the finish line. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 8 #117
On Saturday This American Life ran a segment called mahina Nov 8 #120
Why are we accepting the results? Roxi Nov 8 #122
All incumbents across the world have lost vote share. The Biden to Harris loss was one of the smallest. muriel_volestrangler Nov 8 #124
"Algorithmic microtargeting". Yes. The microtargeting supports Inconsistent views and helps to dissuade real-life convos lostnfound Nov 8 #125
Agreed. You will never convince me Ruby the Liberal Nov 8 #128
When I worked construction... MiHale Nov 8 #129
Kamala is a woman get the red out Nov 8 #130
That could be it. FM123 Nov 8 #155
If buyer's remorse doesn't set in over the next 4 years for a significant number of people who voted for Trump, Martin68 Nov 8 #139
People here keep thinking we'll have free and fair elections that will be winnable in 2026 and 2028. Efilroft Sul Nov 8 #140
Trump said it. "You'll never have to vote again". ratchiweenie Nov 8 #144
We're in for scary times, and the old rules -- the old laws -- won't necessarily be applicable any more. Efilroft Sul Nov 8 #147
Excellent analysis Felicita Nov 8 #146
YES. We hit 1% with volunteers once in 6 months. They hit 90% twice a day -- at least. Festivito Nov 8 #148
Mis and disinformation coupled with lack of perspective is huge. But this was a change election. andym Nov 8 #150
A tech perspective. Great points. It seems like an application of the Facebook effect in 2016 underpants Nov 8 #152
You're one smart guy. defacto7 Nov 8 #154
I need to add to that comment ... defacto7 Nov 8 #159
People almost always bleme the Executive branch for their troubles and complaints. Ping Tung Nov 8 #156
I just had a technician tell me Trump would stop the wars because he was strong True Blue American Nov 20 #165
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