General Discussion

andym

(5,743 posts)

150. Mis and disinformation coupled with lack of perspective is huge. But this was a change election.

Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:03 PM

Nov 8

Mis and disinformation would work far less well if people had a sense of perspective on how the economy and the country really work.

There's a reason that Obama won twice with hope and change during times of economic uncertainty. Kamala ran on hope but allowed Trump to seize the mantle of being a change candidate when polls consistently reported that a large majority of Americans were economically anxious. In this view his volatile chaotic campaigning was a feature rather than a bug for a deciding portion of the electorate.

Kamala brought hope, but not hope and change. Obama's message was and is the way for Democrats to succeed and save the country. Trump will show everyone that not every change is for the best, but the USA and the world will suffer for this lesson.

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Add my "what went wrong" take to the pile [View all] EarlG Nov 7 OP

Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom JoseBalow Nov 7 #1

Sometimes you lose the patient. IrishAfricanAmerican Nov 7 #3

Quite true JoseBalow Nov 7 #4

This felt more like a death knell than rock bottom. Initech Nov 7 #47

I'm having an epiphany ... rebirth not hate LSparkle Nov 8 #161

Usually after a plague, there's a period of enlightenment. Initech Nov 8 #163

Like Nazi Germany gerryatwork Nov 7 #101

Thank you. FWIW, I completely agree. NewHendoLib Nov 7 #2

Agree completely. Here is Rove(?) spelling it out explicitly 20 years ago. dgauss Nov 7 #5

Rove was also author Redmap, the Republican Party plan to use gerrymandering for permanent control of government. Lonestarblue Nov 7 #64

Let's not forget Rove's involment in Bush 2000 election theft. GoreWon2000 Nov 7 #79

And John Roberts, Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett too Attilatheblond Nov 8 #137

It's called a quid pro quo GoreWon2000 Nov 9 #164

Well...that was scary as hell. BComplex Nov 7 #106

I definitely agree that curated spaces and echo chambers have contributed to her loss. orange jar Nov 7 #6

& it's reached almost insurmountable proportions. According to canvassers, the misinformation this election was insane, Native Nov 7 #18

Oh, I wouldn't doubt it. orange jar Nov 7 #24

Agreed... just to add WarGamer Nov 7 #7

I don't know about that. A lot of people are saying it's pandered too much to the left/progressives of the party. Native Nov 7 #29

This old white lady watches football mnhtnbb Nov 7 #57

I would like examples of how the Dem party has pandered to the left - TBF Nov 7 #89

sure, i cant remember them all, but one for sure that was mentioned was the transgender surgeries for inmates. Native Nov 7 #93

She REALLY should have hit-back on the transgender "prison surgery" thing, Jack Valentino Nov 8 #134

But it's not true. summer_in_TX Nov 8 #114

then explain blue collar America leaving the Party? WarGamer Nov 8 #118

When Biden made sure they got COVID relief funds, he should have put his name on it like Trump did. summer_in_TX Nov 8 #119

Trump didn't go after these folks... he had them Jack Bone Nov 8 #121

Those differences in voting by income are all small. It's not a big factor. muriel_volestrangler Nov 8 #123

I think the income voting differences are mostly related to education (which trends to result in higher income), deurbano Nov 8 #145

Saw an article this morning (sorry don't remember where) that said Tadpole Raisin Nov 8 #127

The signs were there. Biden has been a great president. The economy is doing great. Yet most people don't agree. Doodley Nov 7 #8

Do you think Trump's assassination attempt(s) ultimately helped him? orange jar Nov 7 #11

I'm sure it did. It was an important part of their campaign. Our household of two received a dozen direct mail Doodley Nov 7 #15

And people bought into it...... Butterflylady Nov 7 #25

I remember a Dem Operative at the time MustLoveBeagles Nov 7 #48

If a supernatural being saved Trump from death, it was LUCIFER and not God. Jack Valentino Nov 8 #136

No! Rebl2 Nov 7 #32

It didn't ForgedCrank Nov 7 #45

it definitely solidified GOP support for him LymphocyteLover Nov 8 #126

And yet, the Dems didn't continually publish the positive news, buy ads, etc. That's on us. SharonAnn Nov 7 #17

You probably didn't see them dickthegrouch Nov 7 #98

There's no question that's part of it. returnee Nov 7 #9

It's the conspiracy theories LeftInTX Nov 7 #12

Good point. Trump maximized the racist, homophobic, transphobic, mysogynist vote. Kamala had to overcome that. Doodley Nov 7 #13

❤️ littlemissmartypants Nov 7 #10

Really good thoughts Johnny2X2X Nov 7 #14

Along those same lines people expected prices to actually drop to pre-Covid levels groundloop Nov 7 #38

Prices *are* higher than they were 4 years ago intrepidity Nov 8 #157

Finally, someone explaining how targeting works. We're an old group and very defensive to boot. Explanations like this Native Nov 7 #16

If no one's told you lately that you're a genius, EarlG, elbow them in the ribs (gently but definitely). jaxexpat Nov 7 #19

Dems needs to match the right's online media ecosystem. TRHST82 Nov 7 #20

Hope our record with talk radio isn't an indicator KPN Nov 7 #36

It is the perfect indicator intrepidity Nov 8 #158

Buyer's remorse will set in for a lot of people. ananda Nov 7 #21

I disagree. There will never be a free and fair election n/t Vogon_Glory Nov 8 #151

That's already the case for this election. ananda Nov 8 #162

And this algorithmic messaging is now automated and will grow and learn erronis Nov 7 #22

A piece of the loss, yes. I agree with you on that. Passages Nov 7 #23

Has DU become its own bubble? leftstreet Nov 7 #26

DU has always been a bubble! EarlG Nov 7 #58

I should have refreshed before posting. haha TwilightZone Nov 7 #66

Lol true enough leftstreet Nov 7 #69

I do agree that it's good to get multiple perspectives on issues sometimes COL Mustard Nov 7 #72

With a notable exception for the Vance couch thing unblock Nov 7 #77

No. LarryNM Nov 8 #142

Earl, what about a small siloed section of DU where the rules are relaxed somewhat? intrepidity Nov 8 #160

DU has always been its own bubble. TwilightZone Nov 7 #65

All places are bubbles to some extent jfz9580m Nov 7 #105

+1 leftstreet Nov 7 #108

Thank you for reading leftstreet :).nt jfz9580m Nov 7 #110

the creators of AI KT2000 Nov 7 #27

I don't know Dem4life1234 Nov 7 #28

He gained DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 7 #39

It makes a bit of sense for first time voters under 25 Trekologer Nov 7 #88

Confirmation bias can be a dangerous thing Ocelot II Nov 7 #30

"misinformation peddled on an industrial scale" BoRaGard Nov 7 #31

We just got some stunning family news from some in-laws: almost the whole younger gen voted Trump Hekate Nov 7 #33

Did they say why? yardwork Nov 7 #35

i heard today (either from one of the shows on wcpt orleans Nov 7 #61

??! Sparkly Nov 7 #97

they're taking their masks off and showing what they really are nt orleans Nov 7 #103

This is what blows my mind mnhtnbb Nov 7 #62

They didn't care he's an Ajudicate Rapist 34 Counts a Felon.. a Convicted Fraud Cha Nov 7 #112

Gen Z follows Barron Trump and podcasters Maggiemayhem Nov 8 #131

I'm still looking at the returns and I tend to agree... yardwork Nov 7 #34

Right wing radio and trumps own rants Artistree22 Nov 7 #37

At this point, it's more RW podcasting and streaming Algernon Moncrieff Nov 7 #60

Never imagine you're alone in this sort of soul-searching Emrys Nov 7 #40

Precisely this: geniph Nov 7 #68

Thank you for your post LittleGirl Nov 8 #141

You're very welcome Emrys Nov 8 #143

As soon as Brexit was determined LittleGirl Nov 8 #149

Well said especially this .... live love laugh Nov 7 #41

AI has enhanced the methods of mind control for profit bucolic_frolic Nov 7 #42

"people's opinions were already baked in" BumRushDaShow Nov 7 #43

Thanks! It's very cathartic to read this analysis. Mike 03 Nov 7 #44

"The playbook is 100 years old but the technology is brand new." dgauss Nov 7 #111

My Wife and I have been discussing this exactly as you have described for a couple of days now. I agree completely with marked50 Nov 7 #46

The TOP (Trump's Oleaginous Party) can't help but fuck with Social Security and Obamacare. LudwigPastorius Nov 7 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author Ursus Arctos Nov 7 #55

100% agree until last point Cosmocat Nov 7 #50

Ah This explains Peter Theil and the Silicon Valley Divas bronxiteforever Nov 7 #51

One thing the democrats absolutely have to stop with: Initech Nov 7 #52

Thank you so much, EarlG, for explaining that so thoroughly. We have all seen it niyad Nov 7 #53

I agree with your analysis. I still believe that racism and sexism played a role but so did social media tulipsandroses Nov 7 #54

There will be midterms? Algernon Moncrieff Nov 7 #56

For me, to break through the information bubble, it came down to critical thinking (education) ffr Nov 7 #59

Here's what I don't understand anobserver2 Nov 7 #63

I am certain they knew genxlib Nov 8 #135

This is 1000% the message I have been spouting for years. genxlib Nov 8 #138

Resetting the playing field must become resetting the battlefield. Jit423 Nov 7 #67

Words ... matter Metaphorical Nov 7 #70

The difference? Aussie105 Nov 7 #71

A big shocking event, a meteor hitting Earth seems about right BigmanPigman Nov 7 #73

Russia perfected this under Stalin! cilla4progress Nov 7 #74

Uncle Smart Ass Uncle Smart Ass Nov 7 #75

I'm hearing this over and over from party folks, AllyCat Nov 7 #76

I agree that buyer's remorse is going to set in quickly Dem4life1970 Nov 7 #78

Mark Zuckerberg too IbogaProject Nov 7 #80

I agree with what you're saying. GoreWon2000 Nov 7 #81

This is a symptom not the problem Fearless Nov 7 #82

Thanks - I agree. Pinback Nov 7 #83

That is Linda ladeewolf Nov 7 #84

I agree, EarlG. I've seen discussions of this on Twitter. From Asha Rangappa this morning: highplainsdem Nov 7 #85

Hmm. I have a quibble with how you're presenting your point. love_katz Nov 7 #86

Thought-provoking OP. I still think we've got a lot of folks who just won't vote for a woman, TBF Nov 7 #87

Misinformation peddled on an industrial scale. DeeDeeNY Nov 7 #90

Agree with everything you said EarlG jfz9580m Nov 7 #91

Good food for thought. Sparkly Nov 7 #92

So, what we really need is a bigger blowhorn.... Hugin Nov 7 #94

Inadequate messaging has been our issue for years now. SunSeeker Nov 7 #95

He will fuck up on a grand scale before the mid terms orangecrush Nov 7 #96

Bubbles suck The Mouth Nov 7 #99

Our reality: Living inside a conspiracy theory. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 7 #100

You are very correct about the algorithms moniss Nov 7 #102

I sure remember those times Ligyron Nov 8 #133

Yes indeed and a great movie from that time and moniss Nov 8 #153

If only Kamala had done what Trump did. Aussie105 Nov 7 #104

THANK YOU! You are absolutely correct! Silver Gaia Nov 7 #107

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 7 #109

What I keep hearing from trump voters proud patriot Nov 8 #113

My area (DMV) is receiving racist text messages Maggiemayhem Nov 8 #132

how long before repukes crash the economy? Skittles Nov 8 #115

Read a great thread by a Brit about the analogies to Brexit on Twitter today. summer_in_TX Nov 8 #116

The incremental, stealth takeover by oligarchs is now open and in its final race to the finish line. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 8 #117

On Saturday This American Life ran a segment called mahina Nov 8 #120

Why are we accepting the results? Roxi Nov 8 #122

All incumbents across the world have lost vote share. The Biden to Harris loss was one of the smallest. muriel_volestrangler Nov 8 #124

"Algorithmic microtargeting". Yes. The microtargeting supports Inconsistent views and helps to dissuade real-life convos lostnfound Nov 8 #125

Agreed. You will never convince me Ruby the Liberal Nov 8 #128

When I worked construction... MiHale Nov 8 #129

Kamala is a woman get the red out Nov 8 #130

That could be it. FM123 Nov 8 #155

If buyer's remorse doesn't set in over the next 4 years for a significant number of people who voted for Trump, Martin68 Nov 8 #139

People here keep thinking we'll have free and fair elections that will be winnable in 2026 and 2028. Efilroft Sul Nov 8 #140

Trump said it. "You'll never have to vote again". ratchiweenie Nov 8 #144

We're in for scary times, and the old rules -- the old laws -- won't necessarily be applicable any more. Efilroft Sul Nov 8 #147

Excellent analysis Felicita Nov 8 #146

YES. We hit 1% with volunteers once in 6 months. They hit 90% twice a day -- at least. Festivito Nov 8 #148

Mis and disinformation coupled with lack of perspective is huge. But this was a change election. andym Nov 8 #150

A tech perspective. Great points. It seems like an application of the Facebook effect in 2016 underpants Nov 8 #152

You're one smart guy. defacto7 Nov 8 #154

I need to add to that comment ... defacto7 Nov 8 #159

People almost always bleme the Executive branch for their troubles and complaints. Ping Tung Nov 8 #156

I just had a technician tell me Trump would stop the wars because he was strong True Blue American Nov 20 #165