General Discussion

Passages

(1,545 posts)

267. So the top players are going to blame each other? A felon won the popular vote and our side

Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:48 AM

Nov 9

is responsible. Keep blaming the voters and we will keep on losing.

FDR
Democracy has disappeared in several other great nations – disappeared not because the people of those nations disliked democracy, but because they had grown tired of unemployment and insecurity, of seeing their children hungry while they sat helpless in the face of government confusion, government weakness, – weakness through lack of leadership in government. Finally, in desperation, they chose to sacrifice liberty in the hope of getting something to eat. We in America know that our own democratic institutions can be preserved and made to work. But in order to preserve them we need to act together, to meet the problems of the Nation boldly, and to prove that the practical operation of democratic government is equal to the task of protecting the security of the people.

Not only our future economic soundness but the very soundness of our democratic institutions depends on the determination of our Government to give employment to idle men. The people of America are in agreement in defending their liberties at any cost, and the first line of that defense lies in the protection of economic security. Your Government, seeking to protect democracy, must prove that Government is stronger than the forces of business depression.

History proves that dictatorships do not grow out of strong and successful governments but out of weak and helpless governments. If by democratic methods people get a government strong enough to protect them from fear and starvation, their democracy succeeds, but if they do not, they grow impatient. Therefore, the only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over its government.
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/fireside-chat-on-the-recession/

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

322 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Pelosi blaming Biden for endorsing Harris [View all] soandso Nov 8 OP

Sorry, Nancy. I disagree. RandySF Nov 8 #1

In retrospect I agree with Pelosi Du916 Nov 8 #52

If there had been an open primary? MattBaggins Nov 8 #62

Maybe roscoeroscoe Nov 8 #66

"If Harris were pushed aside for yet another old white guy" ?? Dumpy Nov 8 #101

Unfortunately, they said what they meant, Abolishinist Nov 8 #133

what is meaning of WYPIPO orleans Nov 9 #185

Phonetic spelling of "white people" in African American Vernacular English. Abolishinist Nov 9 #195

Yoga pants are uniform in East Central Florida. rubbersole Nov 9 #205

I imagine those will go out of style at some point... Montauk6 Nov 9 #208

Lol rubbersole Diamond_Dog Nov 9 #251

I'm white...and i season my food. What category do i fall into? Buckeyeblue Nov 9 #281

Funny, I have posts with the "word" in the subject line go automatically to trash here. phylny Nov 9 #294

It would have been seen MattBaggins Nov 9 #171

Not "pushed aside" Shrek Nov 9 #234

white guys is all we will get from now on Skittles Nov 9 #189

Women will never be qualified enough, politically astute, educated or smart enough to be elected President of the US! akbacchus_BC Nov 9 #242

Other than wild speculation, what's your evidence for that? Orrex Nov 9 #288

Did he really say that, though? moose65 Nov 8 #82

2020 Du916 Nov 8 #94

Hmmmm moose65 Nov 8 #107

Agreed Du916 Nov 8 #118

That was being floated around, PatSeg Nov 9 #175

Sorry, you need produce a direct quote from Biden. "Advisors" don't count. emulatorloo Nov 9 #303

He said he'd consider the possibility of one term MadameButterfly Nov 9 #192

Post removed Post removed Nov 8 #129

Hindsight is 20:20 Du916 Nov 9 #163

Sharp decline my ass. You sound like a hater. Joe is still a sharp, intelligent man. Trueblue1968 Nov 9 #165

Very true. LisaL Nov 9 #183

If he'd had such a sharp decline; then why did he sound fine at the event After the debate electric_blue68 Nov 9 #186

The over-reaction was just ridiculous. Biden had a really bad cold, I wish his staff had just rescheduled the debate. emulatorloo Nov 9 #302

Heh I didn't need any reminding! 😄😑 electric_blue68 Nov 9 #317

... emulatorloo Nov 9 #318

I think the poster was referring to debating and taking live questions Polybius Nov 9 #307

You might be right electric_blue68 Nov 9 #316

I don't think Kamala was the problem so much as MadameButterfly Nov 9 #199

AM radio for Dems has been discussed since the late 1990s Captain Zero Nov 9 #212

Rush Limbaugh has been dead for over 3 and a half years MichMan Nov 9 #243

They don't need Rush BannonsLiver Nov 9 #297

Neither of which have anything to do with AM radio. MichMan Nov 9 #300

That's yesterdays news too. BannonsLiver Nov 9 #319

Al Franken tried it but it failed financially. Still MadameButterfly Nov 9 #277

+1 pat_k Nov 9 #206

You may be right about the lack of time. AlanAdam Nov 9 #223

Post removed Post removed Nov 8 #2

Post removed Post removed Nov 8 #3

Dems don't know how to play the game Dem4life1234 Nov 8 #4

The issue is that hat Rethugs play dirty Farmgirl1961 Nov 8 #15

My mom (rip) partly grew up in a sort of tough neighborhood in NYC... electric_blue68 Nov 9 #190

Some Dems know how to play dirty inside their camp but Skya Rhen Nov 9 #299

THIS onecaliberal Nov 9 #254

I admire Speaker Pelosi tremendously but I think she should not have spooky3 Nov 8 #5

And not now Lulu KC Nov 8 #75

Agree. Kind of strange. She's smart, been around. etc electric_blue68 Nov 9 #188

She may have passed her expiration date... Hope22 Nov 9 #194

Post removed Post removed Nov 8 #6

Just wow MustLoveBeagles Nov 8 #7

And that is what pisses me the hell off Dem4life1234 Nov 8 #18

That's disappointing. Ocelot II Nov 8 #8

Thanks for nothing! BluenFLA Nov 8 #9

"Nancy Pelosi" texted me a couple of times... Alephy Nov 8 #10

Foolish! They are succeeding in having us eat our own. Jit423 Nov 8 #11

Maybe Woodwizard Nov 8 #12

This is getting insane. ananda Nov 8 #13

I'll say MustLoveBeagles Nov 8 #16

it definitely doesn't help, and she's had a successful enough career that she should hold her tongue cadoman Nov 8 #79

Well said. nt akbacchus_BC Nov 9 #245

Biden should have never sought reelection, but after his late exit we were basically stuck with Harris. tritsofme Nov 8 #14

Even if we couldn't have a primary due to time, we still had last cycles results to fall back to. Lancero Nov 8 #74

Biden ran away with 2020, it was barely ever a competitive race, it was over after South Carolina. tritsofme Nov 8 #83

Not asking about President. Asking about potential picks for VP's. Lancero Nov 8 #96

I think Harris was a fine vice president and helped the ticket in 2020. tritsofme Nov 9 #217

I think she was a great candidate. It's the electorate that failed. ificandream Nov 8 #92

Stuck? Seriously?? After he CHOSE her as his running mate and presidential partner as the "last in the room"? ancianita Nov 9 #168

Yes, that's exactly how I felt. We had no choice but to run Harris. tritsofme Nov 9 #218

Incredibly disappointing! Mme. Defarge Nov 8 #17

The MSM was relentless. luvallpeeps Nov 8 #89

I was disappointed when his own people called for him to step down. Yes, the debate was painful to watch but that akbacchus_BC Nov 9 #249

She pushed him out. Is this the onion. Emile Nov 8 #19

Yes, she pushed him out, and now tries to avoid responsibility for the outcome. LisaL Nov 8 #58

Not Only Was She One of the Orchestrators Of Biden Stepping Aside hotellanai1986 Nov 9 #198

Pelosi should retire. Self Esteem Nov 8 #20

This message was self-deleted by its author iemanja Nov 8 #21

That is CLEARLY what she was saying, WTF krawhitham Nov 8 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author iemanja Nov 8 #38

RIGHT krawhitham Nov 8 #40

Fair enough. I stand corrected. iemanja Nov 8 #47

Joe endorsed Harris seconds after he withdrew, forcing everyone else to follow suit krawhitham Nov 8 #45

Why would he not endorse his own VP? LisaL Nov 8 #50

To allow the Party as a whole to chose a candidate Zeitghost Nov 8 #106

There was no time for a party as a whole to chose a candidate. LisaL Nov 8 #108

I think he may have been quick to endorse her early because Obama did NOT do the same with his VP... thesquanderer Nov 9 #196

Despicable displacedvermoter Nov 8 #22

She doesn't want to accept her own responsibility for LisaL Nov 8 #23

Democrats forced Biden to drop out. hadEnuf Nov 8 #103

Lawrence O'Donnell said that repeatedly PatSeg Nov 9 #181

With all due respect to everyone, I'm sick of the Biden Bashing. Really sick of it. Joinfortmill Nov 8 #24

So am I MustLoveBeagles Nov 8 #27

So am I. Joe did an amazing job pulling this country out of the toilet trump left us in. The only thing that should LoisB Nov 8 #33

Maybe President Newsom COL Mustard Nov 8 #37

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 9 #224

If you ask me, Nancy Pelosi should have pressured Joe Biden not to run for re-election in the first place In It to Win It Nov 8 #25

Pelosi and Schumer agreed that Biden was our nominee 12/22 Arazi Nov 8 #84

That's because she was the one behind forcing Joe out, and now does not what the backlash, so she blaming others krawhitham Nov 8 #26

She put the final knife to Joes back, and is scrambling to escape now that everyone is reaching for a fork. Lancero Nov 8 #36

I strongly agree that President Biden should not have run for a second term. tman Nov 8 #28

Hindsight is always 20-20. LisaL Nov 9 #237

Even if there was substance to what she says Dave says Nov 8 #29

Unfortunately she is saying what everyone is thinking. It's bad timing, but not wrong. Pisces Nov 8 #34

Not everyone n/t Lulu KC Nov 8 #140

Pelosi should retire standingtall Nov 8 #30

She did more to protect us from Trump last time. How about she not retire LizBeth Nov 8 #43

Pelosi is 84 years old standingtall Nov 8 #49

Not president and doing fine and the one in there not a younger gen LizBeth Nov 8 #119

My feelings exactly. LisaL Nov 8 #44

WTF? She's blaming both Biden and Harris for the loss. StarryNite Nov 8 #31

It's the truth Zeitghost Nov 8 #54

If Harris had been passed over as replacement, we would not have marybourg Nov 8 #68

Sure we would Zeitghost Nov 8 #97

Solid vetting process? LisaL Nov 8 #99

At the convention Zeitghost Nov 8 #102

Convention was scheduled after a deadline to get on the ballot in OH. LisaL Nov 8 #104

You are seriously underinformed Zeitghost Nov 8 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author Lulu KC Nov 8 #126

What you said Zeitghost Nov 8 #127

This message was self-deleted by its author Lulu KC Nov 8 #130

OH deadline was extended, but the law wouldn't have taken an effect in 2024, because extension was LisaL Nov 8 #135

Dream on. Bypassing Harris would've splintered the party and lost the Black vote. brush Nov 9 #178

Biden rebuffed all attempts to convince him early Zeitghost Nov 9 #182

Listen up. I said a whole party primary in '22 where Harris would've sunk or swam like other candidates. brush Nov 9 #187

This black woman would no longer identify as a democrat. And I know plenty of other black women that feel that way tulipsandroses Nov 9 #207

I'm sure that will work out well Zeitghost Nov 9 #209

Seems like you are making all kinds of assumptions there. If you want to know my other intentions. Ask. Don't assume. tulipsandroses Nov 9 #214

The VP was the normal, logical and highly qualified candidate to replace a departing Pres. marybourg Nov 8 #105

A primary is not passing someone over. white_wolf Nov 9 #191

There was no time for a primary, when Biden was forced to drop out. LisaL Nov 9 #193

Strongly disagree. To not choose the sitting marybourg Nov 9 #197

This isn't about DEI scores Zeitghost Nov 9 #211

I don't think it would be called "passed over" Polybius Nov 9 #309

This isn't "advice" Lulu KC Nov 8 #85

It's the Nancy I know and love Zeitghost Nov 8 #93

I am not challenging her comments Lulu KC Nov 8 #114

The time for the truth Zeitghost Nov 8 #124

Good night Lulu KC Nov 8 #138

Who would you have picked as our candidate? StarryNite Nov 8 #117

Ideally Zeitghost Nov 8 #122

If the candidate was selected at the convention by whatever process, LisaL Nov 8 #132

The deadline was moved Zeitghost Nov 8 #134

It was not moved quickly enough. The old date would have been still in place in 2024. LisaL Nov 8 #139

Yes it was, it's been covered over and over Zeitghost Nov 8 #145

Maybe Pelosi should blame herself for forcing him out when it was too late to do so. LisaL Nov 9 #149

Internal polls had Biden losing bad Zeitghost Nov 9 #162

We don't have access to internal polling, unless you are a party insider. DiamondShark Nov 9 #312

I respectfully disagree. StarryNite Nov 8 #113

My thoughts, as well soandso Nov 8 #137

Biden was certainly NOT mentally declining Deminpenn Nov 9 #227

While I agree with you re his mental moonscape Nov 9 #291

Unfortunately, we were put in a position where she was the most convenient option In It to Win It Nov 9 #176

People will be feasting on COL Mustard Nov 8 #35

I think she is probably correct and I loved Harris and she ran an excellent LizBeth Nov 8 #39

I guess she hasn't done enough. onecaliberal Nov 8 #41

oh man....thank you stillcool Nov 8 #57

IIt is also raw story. niyad Nov 8 #42

From the NYT soandso Nov 8 #100

I wll wait for the actual piece. niyad Nov 8 #109

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/us/politics/pelosi-harris-biden-open-primary.html soandso Nov 8 #116

I can't believe how many are trashing Nancy Pelosi. This is upside Pisces Nov 8 #46

The truth is, she played a big role in what happened. LisaL Nov 8 #48

People here Zeitghost Nov 8 #59

Neither Biden nor Harris deserve this in the least. yorkster Nov 8 #72

Just like it wasn't helpful for her to force Biden out LisaL Nov 8 #76

I hated the way it happened, but don't know yorkster Nov 8 #136

This is beyond unhelpful. The Unmitigated Gall Nov 8 #51

It was calculated. She knew exactly who to run to in order to yet again bash Joe. bovine6 Nov 9 #161

Well, of course she knew. LisaL Nov 9 #170

Yet everyone says how the Dems can't get their messaging out. They have the media on speed dial Skya Rhen Nov 9 #301

Dems... Ollie Garkie Nov 8 #53

No, Rs do not march in lockstep soandso Nov 8 #144

Yes, they do. Karasu Nov 9 #173

I disagree soandso Nov 9 #177

You forget the details of how and why that happened. Karasu Nov 9 #184

Done? They very well may have the trifecta. I wish we were that "done". jimfields33 Nov 9 #252

Look like they were speaking about moderate Rs being done within their party. DiamondShark Nov 9 #314

Seems those moderates vote for the reicht. onecaliberal Nov 9 #257

I actually agree with her. Xolodno Nov 8 #55

Trump doesn't care he is term limited. LisaL Nov 8 #63

Hence why Biden should have stated right after he took office that he was a one termer. Xolodno Nov 8 #78

Well, clearly in retrospect, we would have been better off if we had a competitive primary. LisaL Nov 8 #112

I think it was, in terms of football, a Hail Mary. Xolodno Nov 8 #142

In 2022, she and Schumer agreed that Biden should run for re-election. LisaL Nov 9 #156

Going to need a link for that. Xolodno Nov 9 #164

Well, then the proper time to act on those worries would have been in 2022. LisaL Nov 9 #167

Pelosi and Schumer both said Biden's the nominee 12/22 Arazi Nov 9 #255

I love your patience and tenacity for stating the facts. Well done. NT akbacchus_BC Nov 9 #266

But Democrats lost the year that LBJ decided not to run again (1968) Polybius Nov 9 #311

True. Xolodno Nov 9 #321

The Only Way We Win Chicagogrl1 Nov 8 #56

The repubs Will SoCalDavidS Nov 8 #73

Yep. LisaL Nov 8 #77

60% of Republicans are MAGA cultists. Elessar Zappa Nov 9 #263

Oh, Nancy..... WVGal1963 Nov 8 #60

I really thought Harris ran a perfect campaign crushed him in the debate Tribetime Nov 8 #61

Unfortunately, LisaL Nov 8 #65

I wasn't thinking that was the world we were living in I was wrong Tribetime Nov 8 #70

Well yeah, they were counting on white females not to disconnect abortion policy from the policy maker. 49-49 during ... uponit7771 Nov 8 #87

Midterms didn't have Trump in them, which apparently brings out LisaL Nov 8 #95

Agreed. She left it all on the field. 5000% effort ecstatic Nov 9 #305

Power corrupts AverageOldGuy Nov 8 #64

Ironic considering soandso Nov 8 #110

Kamala represents the one cohort that didn't abandon us. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 8 #67

Very true. LisaL Nov 8 #69

There were nobody better than Kamala. Dave Bowman Nov 8 #71

Passing over Kamala would have Sneederbunk Nov 8 #80

There wasnt much of a good choice anyway we went back in the summer... Mark.b2 Nov 8 #120

WHO Nancy just WHO was going to be nominated? flamingdem Nov 8 #81

Indeed Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 8 #86

Biden ran and won as a one term candidate to return stability to the Nation. Freethinker65 Nov 8 #88

I agreed with what she said. oldmanlynn Nov 8 #90

She's forgotten that she herself said Biden was the nominee Arazi Nov 8 #91

Yep. The time for any different candidates would have been LisaL Nov 8 #98

And an open primary might have made things worse. The MFer trump had our number this time. Silent Type Nov 8 #111

I don't think this would have mattered DC77 Nov 8 #115

leadership had a choice wichita Nov 8 #123

And if he'd been reelected Lulu KC Nov 9 #147

You nailed it. Dems eat their own, they need to stop that crap and learn from the rethug play book, rally around akbacchus_BC Nov 9 #271

Pretty sad. Our Party isn't in a great place right now. jalan48 Nov 8 #125

she still doesn't get: it has nothing to do with the candidate AlexSFCA Nov 8 #128

Because the reicht is so good at that... onecaliberal Nov 9 #260

unfortunately, we learned, none of that matters to most voters AlexSFCA Nov 9 #287

A lot of peoples votes weren't counted. People everywhere are saying onecaliberal Nov 9 #290

I agreed with you up until point 3 ecstatic Nov 9 #313

Meet the New Boss... MrWowWow Nov 8 #131

We fuckd ourselves. Biden one and done. Primary. MerryBlooms Nov 8 #141

she just can't stop herself bigtree Nov 8 #143

Should have been a one a done. Primary. MerryBlooms Nov 9 #151

Take care of yourself. mahina Nov 9 #230

Oh crap. elleng Nov 9 #146

As usual Dems form a circular firing squad Hassler Nov 9 #148

If Biden had dropped out a year ago we would have had primaries and had doc03 Nov 9 #150

They shut out other candidates! Arazi Nov 9 #261

Exactly. LisaL Nov 9 #275

I must be blocked by most of DU Arazi Nov 9 #282

WTF Nancy? The "other side" ran with and old, crazy, felon and rapist crimycarny Nov 9 #152

So true. LisaL Nov 9 #153

Maybe Nancy could have done something more substantive than a snarky clap Orrex Nov 9 #154

What do you think she could've done? Elessar Zappa Nov 9 #246

She could have refrained from armchair quarterbacking in the immediate aftermath of the election Orrex Nov 9 #286

Members of the Democratic party are feeding on each other, its a stage of grief yaesu Nov 9 #155

Maybe it's time for Pelosi and Schumer to retire as well ecstatic Nov 9 #157

Honestly RJ_MacReady Nov 9 #296

Bad take, Nan. JHB Nov 9 #158

Will the circular firing squad never end? Susan Calvin Nov 9 #159

That's what we are famous for, why stop now? LisaL Nov 9 #166

The important thing is not whether she gets blamed or not. Susan Calvin Nov 9 #169

I sense, rightly or wrongly, that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment to express at DU, however, Frank D. Lincoln Nov 9 #160

Not unpopular with the repro rights groups I am in Arazi Nov 9 #265

Take responsibity for your own actions forner Speaker Pelosi. CentralMass Nov 9 #172

Talk about rubbing salt into the wound PatSeg Nov 9 #179

What I want to know ucrdem Nov 9 #174

Can't you keep your mouth shut Pelosi. JohnSJ Nov 9 #180

Post removed Post removed Nov 9 #200

I dont agree with it all but you spoke some truths in thst rant. CentralMass Nov 9 #201

A broken clock is right twice a day. rubbersole Nov 9 #202

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 9 #203

Biden's decision to run for another term was a terrible, and tragic, mistake. pat_k Nov 9 #204

I disagree. I think forcing him out was the mistake. CentralMass Nov 9 #219

The reason we lost is simple DaddyShark Nov 9 #210

She lost bc White people are anxious about a diversifying America. Yavin4 Nov 9 #216

White people are the only racial demographic Harris made gains in Sympthsical Nov 9 #225

How do you know that she forced him out? mahina Nov 9 #213

Nancy, like a lot pros in DC, is completely out of touch with modern politics Yavin4 Nov 9 #215

It wasn't Kamala, or Joe, or Pelosi nilram Nov 9 #220

This isn't helping Meowmee Nov 9 #221

File under, Be Careful What You Wish For Deminpenn Nov 9 #222

There are no other candidates that would fair better anglesphere Nov 9 #226

and now we start eating our own young... Layzeebeaver Nov 9 #228

She didn't have to give that interview. FloridaBlues Nov 9 #229

Why the f*** isn't Pelosi asking where the votes went?? Why isn't she asking for recounts?? WTF???? 58Sunliner Nov 9 #231

The votes were never there- are we not getting it yet???? AkFemDem Nov 9 #232

Then why exactly is Pelosi blaming Biden and Harris for this? LisaL Nov 9 #236

I think she wanted him out sooner to drive more momentum AkFemDem Nov 9 #238

The time to replace Biden with somebody else should have been LisaL Nov 9 #240

She shut out other candidates at the start Arazi Nov 9 #278

That's what she is doing, trying to avoid the blame for what happened. LisaL Nov 9 #280

That interview clip is from December 2022 Arazi Nov 9 #283

We agree to disagree. 58Sunliner Nov 9 #250

If Harris had won, luvallpeeps Nov 9 #233

Love ya Nancy, but go ... Island Blue Nov 9 #235

Times reporting? Whatever. Scrivener7 Nov 9 #239

The problem is with the electorate bucolic_frolic Nov 9 #241

Nancy should retire. She announced on Election night Dems would win the house. Mr.WeRP Nov 9 #244

This just the Johnson/Stevenson all over again Blue Full Moon Nov 9 #247

WHAT? no_hypocrisy Nov 9 #248

Her hindsight is off. PAMod Nov 9 #253

Nancy Pelosi has some answering to do kansasobama Nov 9 #256

I think it hurt and not help. LisaL Nov 9 #270

Not exactly claudette Nov 9 #258

When was this primary going to happen at the time Pelosi and company forced Biden out? LisaL Nov 9 #273

I don't know claudette Nov 9 #298

She has her own legacy to protect newdeal2 Nov 9 #259

If they would have not given it to Harris sky_masterson Nov 9 #262

I agree with Pelosi NickB79 Nov 9 #264

Harris is much younger than Trump. LisaL Nov 9 #268

My honest answer? She's a woman NickB79 Nov 9 #279

So the top players are going to blame each other? A felon won the popular vote and our side Passages Nov 9 #267

Damn it Nancy please stop it... Ysabel Nov 9 #269

I'm sorry, I think Nancy was a great Speaker . . . hatrack Nov 9 #272

I semi agree with her -misanthroptimist Nov 9 #274

Well, if there truly was time to chose a candidate at the convention, LisaL Nov 9 #276

It doesn't stop it, per se... -misanthroptimist Nov 9 #295

Oh I'm sorry things didn't go as planned for you. Autumn Nov 9 #284

Pelosi julmur Nov 9 #285

Yeah but even with all that Turbineguy Nov 9 #289

All Well and Good Nancy But.... the_liberal_grandpa Nov 9 #292

Sounds like a smart gal to me Beringia Nov 9 #293

Her timing is shameful. Boomerproud Nov 9 #308

Looks like she threw both Biden and Harris under the bus Polybius Nov 9 #304

Who was he supposed to endorse? alarimer Nov 9 #306

Remember all those post about the war chest only being usable by Harris? Fish700 Nov 9 #310

This thread sucks. I reported it for sounding like GOP but it is still here. Boo, hiss !!!!!!! Trueblue1968 Nov 9 #315

made me very sad Brainstormy Nov 9 #320

Seems like the former speaker envisioned some kind of ad-hoc primary happening, Jack Valentino Nov 9 #322