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Prairie Gates

(5,027 posts)
29. Let me explain some of this from a Euro Football culture point of view
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:37 AM
Nov 2024

A few points:

1. Maccabi Tel Aviv has perhaps the most disgusting racist ultras in European competition - Anyone who disputes this doesn't really understand ultra culture and shouldn't be taken seriously. Having the most racist ultras in Euro competition is also a very high bar, because you're going up against Lazio, AZ Alkmaar, and pretty much any team's ultras based in the former Yugoslavia. Hell, Ajax gets honorable mention in that table. Maccabi Tel Aviv are up there with the absolute worst. They are notorious for it.

2. Ultras have to be distinguished from ordinary "fans" (we call them supporters). Ultras (or what some would call "hooligans" ) are very nearly organized paramilitaries at this point. Ordinary fans wear kits and scarves and are usually relatively clueless about the ultra conflicts in the offing.

When I first heard this story, I thought it was about fights between Ajax ultras and Maccabi Tel Avi ultras, primarily because both groups are up for it and both are extremely violent. It was notable that several Israeli officials insisted that this wasn't a story about what they called "supporter culture," a euphemism for ultra crime and fighting. I wasn't so sure.

It seems like what happened here is hard to explain unless groups 1 and 2 are distinguished and given their own stories. I have no doubt that the Maccabi Tel Aviv ultras were acting like racist asshats in Amsterdam. I also think that both Tel Aviv ultras AND ordinary fans were drawn into the fight. The attacks of group 1 do not, of course, justify the attacks on group 2. It's kind of a metaphor in that way, no? Anyway, this is where a correct and reasonable discussion of what happened can start.

Recommendations

4 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

You left out the cheap shot at President Biden. Mosby Nov 2024 #1
I figured some folks would focus on that instead of what actually happened in Amsterdam, so excerpted just the salient WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2024 #2
What does focusing on what actually happened have to do with this story? Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #8
There is this. Eko Nov 2024 #3
Yeah, I can clearly see the half dozen or so hardened hooligans in this picture Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #6
Yeah I didn't say that. I specifically didn't say that. I specifically said this wasn't evidence for the rest at all. Eko Nov 2024 #9
Let me rethink that... Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #16
Thx Mosby Hekate Nov 2024 #80
I can't figure out how some 60 masked peaceful pro-Palestinian protesters were arrested for Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #4
It's pretty obvious to me JustAnotherGen Nov 2024 #5
Maybe some context from this Jewish Israeli politician in the Knesset will help vanessa_ca Nov 2024 #28
Good on the Knesset member who represents 6% of Israelis on the extreme left of the political spectrum. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #32
Hadash hold 5 seats Israeli Nov 2024 #52
I see it more as Israel's democrats losing our country. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #55
And the Israeli media? As usual: approaches, hides, and distorts reality in the service of the authorities. Israeli Nov 2024 #50
Easy there, zimmy. Iggo Nov 2024 #78
"Death to the Arabs". AloeVera Nov 2024 #7
You know Israel likes dump right? Eko Nov 2024 #10
Only 17% of Israelis supported Harris for Pres??! AloeVera Nov 2024 #12
Nah, we have to keep supporting them on their Eko Nov 2024 #14
Are you American ??? Israeli Nov 2024 #51
Yup, I am an American. Eko Nov 2024 #73
Welcome to my world Israeli Nov 2024 #82
Ha thanks. Eko Nov 2024 #83
Why would Democrats get upset with what what non-voting Israelis 5000 miles away think, rather than Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #19
I have news for you... choie Nov 2024 #26
What a coincidence! Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #27
That's 22% fucking stupid asses choie Nov 2024 #36
Not to disagree with you, but how does this relate to Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #38
50% of Catholics, 60% of Protestants voted for that criminal. Mosby Nov 2024 #46
So do American Muslims. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #13
So that makes which one good? Eko Nov 2024 #15
you tell me. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #17
Did I not ask you? Eko Nov 2024 #20
Watch me ignore your endless bickering: Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #22
Watch all of us see you not answering a easy question. Eko Nov 2024 #25
American muslims showed themselves as single issue voters. Mosby Nov 2024 #47
I think their answer will be obvious choie Nov 2024 #37
That could be totally right, Eko Nov 2024 #18
No, silly, the conversation is about the antisemitic attack by supporters of Palestine against supporters of a friggin Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #21
I mean, dump sign? Israels supprt for dump? Eko Nov 2024 #24
I will take a wild guess and say Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #11
Great post malaise Nov 2024 #31
Assaulting an Arab cab driver, tearing down Palestinian flags, racist chants, vandalism... Rob H. Nov 2024 #23
...as 60 alleged assilants of a cab driver ended up in a hospital with serious injuries, including knife wounds. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #34
63 people were arrested, about 30 suffered light injuries, and five were treated Rob H. Nov 2024 #39
Dutch authorities, including King Wilhelm-Alexander, described the attacks as antisemitic. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #41
10 Israelis were injured, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. AloeVera Nov 2024 #48
If they were locals, they were all Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #49
It's surprising more locals weren't injured Rob H. Nov 2024 #56
Everyone should watch this video. AloeVera Nov 2024 #68
Let me explain some of this from a Euro Football culture point of view Prairie Gates Nov 2024 #29
THIS malaise Nov 2024 #45
Good report malaise Nov 2024 #30
Sky News reported on it, accurately at first Rob H. Nov 2024 #33
... and then, for no reason, changed their minds and decided to report outright lies... Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #35
This person actually lives in the Netherlands Rob H. Nov 2024 #40
So do the Mayor of Amsterdam and the King of Netherlands, I suspect. Beastly Boy Nov 2024 #43
That's shocking. I used to think Sky News was a trustworthy source. Mr. Sparkle Nov 2024 #53
FAFO racist assholes. ZonkerHarris Nov 2024 #42
This just in: Violent hominids behave according to their nature misanthrope Nov 2024 #44
Good report here malaise Nov 2024 #54
all sources deny that the Jewish supporters misbehaved or brought aggression upon themselves" Mosby Nov 2024 #57
De Telegraaf is a right-wing tabloid Rob H. Nov 2024 #60
So what? Mosby Nov 2024 #63
Right-wing sources aren't permitted here Rob H. Nov 2024 #70
That's not accurate Mosby Nov 2024 #72
Calling out racism and bigotry, sure Rob H. Nov 2024 #81
Hamas supporters attacked Jews leaving Noa Kirel's concert in New York City last night. Mosby Nov 2024 #58
Trumps steal has emboldened racists peregrinus Nov 2024 #74
Yes, and just because it's starting with Jews Mosby Nov 2024 #75
Is this kid a racist? Are all Jews legitimate targets? Mosby Nov 2024 #59
The "Jew Hunt" was planned days before. Mosby Nov 2024 #61
The "Jew Hunt" is starting in Begium Mosby Nov 2024 #62
Amazon employee Alfaisal Al Khaledi shockingly defends the antisemitic pogroms Mosby Nov 2024 #64
Richie Torres on the Pogrom Mosby Nov 2024 #65
AIPAC is his biggest donor Rob H. Nov 2024 #71
The antisemitic mob also beat up women Mosby Nov 2024 #66
New info Mosby Nov 2024 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Nov 2024 #69
Riots have broken out again in Amsterdam tonight Mosby Nov 2024 #76
Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema.... Mosby Nov 2024 #77
The horrifying videos just keep coming out of Amsterdam Mosby Nov 2024 #79
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