General Discussion

Cirsium

(1,158 posts)

130. Another point of view

Sun Dec 1, 2024, 03:07 PM

Dec 1

Physically speaking, we cannot separate. We cannot remove our respective sections from each other, nor build an impassable wall between them. A husband and wife may be divorced, and go out of the presence and beyond the reach of each other; but the different parts of our country cannot do this. They cannot but remain face to face, and intercourse, either amicable or hostile, must continue between them. Is it possible, then, to make that intercourse more advantageous or more satisfactory after separation than before? Can aliens make treaties easier than friends can make laws? Can treaties be more faithfully enforced between aliens than laws can among friends? Suppose you go to war, you cannot fight always; and when, after much loss on both sides, and no gain on either, you cease fighting, the identical old questions as to terms of intercourse are again upon you.

Abraham Lincoln
March 4, 1861
First Inaugural Address

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Four States Could Secede From US and Join Canada to Avoid Trump--Democrat [View all] YoshidaYui Nov 29 OP

That's not going to happen JI7 Nov 29 #1

NO, of course not, it will be YoshidaYui Nov 29 #2

That's not going to happen either. GP6971 Nov 29 #5

probably not. quakerboy Nov 29 #18

Won't happen, but it would be a dream! Bernardo de La Paz Nov 29 #13

And a great dream it is! Thanks! ancianita Nov 29 #21

Ooooh! I like that! Dem2theMax Nov 30 #28

.The only issue is that Canadians might feel overwhelmed. lapfog_1 Nov 30 #29

Nah, you wouldn't have to learn French. Disaffected Nov 30 #42

Exactly. And no hordes will move into Canada's provinces; they just stay where they are within the Canadian border. ancianita Nov 30 #49

You are so wrong. arthritisR_US Nov 30 #76

OK, I'll bite. Disaffected Nov 30 #89

Canada is an English speaking country, only one of our 10 arthritisR_US Nov 30 #91

Fine but I still don't understand what I am Disaffected Nov 30 #92

Well that's your experience. róisín_dubh Dec 1 #119

It would be a new province, not part of Quebec... brush Nov 30 #108

Sure, Quebec would remain Quebec (at least for a while). Disaffected Nov 30 #114

The matter is one of American imaginings. Canada would have to decide on it. brush Dec 1 #118

Wow, you do not know Canada, sad. arthritisR_US Nov 30 #75

California could readily survive as an independent country Metaphorical Dec 1 #129

I like the way the Great Lakes look locked up and safe that way. NBachers Nov 30 #39

If MN,WI,IL and MI leave the union it's a near lock. roamer65 Nov 30 #100

This!👆👆👆 bamagal62 Nov 30 #104

I see a face in profile, on the West coast. calimary Nov 30 #64

USONA usonian Nov 30 #65

Oregon ...... Lets go canada !!!!!! Trueblue1968 Nov 30 #95

I would love it. OnionPatch Nov 30 #116

Why not both? nt Disaffected Nov 30 #37

Yes !!!!!!!! Washington Stargazer99 Nov 30 #81

A Canadian friend of mine said he felt the US and Canada should unite and split again only East and West with a ... marble falls Nov 30 #97

Or Mexico! JoseBalow Nov 30 #109

Just in time for a new right-wing Canadian Prime Minister Polybius Dec 1 #125

"Four States Could Secede From US..." J_William_Ryan Nov 29 #3

The constitution doesn't mention secession soandso Nov 29 #9

It could happen without a war, but it would mean abandoning the Constitution. But Jesusland would abandon happily Bernardo de La Paz Nov 29 #14

So, if Trump abandons the constitution, bamagal62 Nov 30 #105

Good thought and good point. brush Nov 30 #111

Yes, because it's a compact between the states. roamer65 Dec 1 #131

Civil War and the dissolution of the country quakerboy Nov 29 #20

Yeah, I doubt the Canadian populace would go for it Disaffected Nov 30 #43

Maybe we could become part of the EU. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Nov 30 #60

Would Canada want the RW extremists in rural NY and PA? wnylib Nov 30 #70

Would Canada even want the "liberals" of urban NYC or San Francisco? quakerboy Nov 30 #73

We would have no problem with them. arthritisR_US Nov 30 #77

YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE A BAD THING... being a Liberal YoshidaYui Nov 30 #90

quite the opposite quakerboy Dec 1 #122

Personally, No. But all others I have no problem. arthritisR_US Nov 30 #78

Eastern Oregon Mme. Defarge Nov 30 #103

Then call it a trade agreement. ancianita Nov 30 #50

To paraquote someone Polybius Dec 1 #126

I thought ForgedCrank Nov 29 #4

you think meal team 6 is going to want to take us on? fight to keep us? lapfog_1 Nov 30 #31

Meal Team 6 no. The actual Seal Team Six, yes DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 30 #55

I think Red states and the Rederal Government would want to let Blue states go Polybius Dec 1 #127

The US Military ForgedCrank Nov 30 #59

you think that if there is a divorce... that the red states lapfog_1 Nov 30 #63

No, you ForgedCrank Nov 30 #68

so in the last civil war, the entire military fought on one side? lapfog_1 Nov 30 #71

You know what? ForgedCrank Nov 30 #85

Shockingly, things have changed considerably in the last 150+ years DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 30 #96

trump has said he would suspend the Constitution... brush Nov 30 #113

Well then ForgedCrank Nov 30 #115

A dictator with total immunity for official acts from the corrupt SCOTUS 6... brush Dec 1 #117

I would be ok with it Meowmee Nov 29 #6

States can secede thinkingagain Nov 29 #7

He could use the money to buy Greenland, which he's always wanted. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 29 #15

Trump would love to have 49 states DENVERPOPS Nov 30 #26

No way Canada would allow that dsc Nov 29 #8

It's still a win-win. The new provinces add to Canada's wealth & GDP, while all the respective populations stay put-- ancianita Nov 29 #10

Secession intelpug Nov 30 #61

Not only this... roamer65 Nov 30 #99

Remember, as well, ancianita Dec 1 #121

It's more like 40 million, about the same as California. We'd love it, especially if we got Hawaii in the bargain! Bernardo de La Paz Nov 29 #17

California is one of the richest countries in the world. Dem2theMax Nov 30 #30

This is dumb. BlueTsunami2018 Nov 29 #11

We are "succeeding". Magas are seceding. I'll stick with succeeding. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 29 #19

Thank you. ancianita Nov 30 #44

No one is succeeding. Exactly. dchill Nov 30 #33

People would lose their Social Security etc Omaha Steve Nov 29 #12

New York would work that out. Instead of sending its wealth to Soc Security recipients of hard red states. ancianita Nov 29 #16

got news for you... lapfog_1 Nov 30 #35

JUST THE IDEA of East-West secession would either shake trump into dictator mode or make him treat those states ancianita Nov 29 #22

Red state economy would collapse. Illegal oasis Nov 29 #23

build a wall! build a wall! lapfog_1 Nov 30 #36

Hey, wait a minute!!! bamagal62 Nov 30 #106

Small problem, there's no provision in the Constitution for a state to unilaterally secede. CaptainTruth Nov 29 #24

we don't need no stinkin constitution! lapfog_1 Nov 30 #41

That's exactly the idea -- TALK ABOUT IT. Let's call it something else, like forming an alliance. ancianita Nov 30 #46

I think the Constitution prohibits individual states from doing that Kaleva Nov 30 #51

Okay, quote the Constitution. One thing the Constitution does not prohibit is the free speech in expressing the IDEA. ancianita Nov 30 #56

And people are free to say the idea is foolish and won't go anywhere. Kaleva Nov 30 #58

That's going to be useless if some Trump-like Tory from Alberta becomes PM. Crowman2009 Nov 29 #25

True DetroitLegalBeagle Nov 30 #57

That would likely be a self defining answer quakerboy Nov 30 #74

And that would be fantastic. arthritisR_US Nov 30 #79

Secession doesnt sound any less dumb when its our side proposing it. Asa13 Nov 30 #27

Texas has done it for racist reasons. We're doing it for economic and political self defense. Big difference. ancianita Nov 30 #53

Lol so you think they said we want to secede cause we're racist Asa13 Nov 30 #62

Doubt Canada or the UK would say Okay IbogaProject Nov 30 #32

Tied in tradition only. Disaffected Nov 30 #45

That's assuming canetoad Nov 30 #34

Yeah..There's that pesky war from 1776. LeftInTX Nov 30 #112

What's this fascination with joining Canada? Retrograde Nov 30 #38

Why not Rhode Island? displacedvermoter Nov 30 #82

Ask the OP Retrograde Nov 30 #94

Liz Krueger is my senator choie Nov 30 #40

If she thinks Trump poses a serious threat, why doesn't she put forth serious proposals? Kaleva Nov 30 #54

Screw all y'all SCantiGOP Nov 30 #47

Pigs could fly. onenote Nov 30 #48

It's been tried. Didn't end well. Iggo Nov 30 #52

It would give Trump the excuse to use the military domestically. DJ Synikus Makisimus Nov 30 #66

She should focus that extra energy on helping Democracts gain more seats at the State level of government. cstanleytech Nov 30 #67

No. This will not happen. We are not as dumb as trumpsters. C Moon Nov 30 #69

Recommended. H2O Man Nov 30 #72

Trump Tower in Canada. no_hypocrisy Nov 30 #80

Harris won NY by fewer than 12 points FBaggins Nov 30 #83

Secession is treason. It won't happen. The public comradebillyboy Nov 30 #84

This is (kinda) my dream. intheflow Nov 30 #86

It's going to be a bunch of blue cities surrounded by red LoveSucky Nov 30 #87

If you read the Canadian sub-reddits, most people can't afford to live there Fish700 Nov 30 #88

Why is it when MAGAts mention secession we all laugh? But when Democrats suggest it, its possible? No its not. Runningdawg Nov 30 #93

What have I been saying? roamer65 Nov 30 #98

Why would Canada agree? bucolic_frolic Nov 30 #101

Add the three west coast states plus Nevada and I'm in... brush Nov 30 #102

To all those opposed to secession Blaukraut Nov 30 #107

They have no solution except to say maybe in the next election etc. things will get better Meowmee Dec 1 #120

And DU makes fun of Texas LeftInTX Nov 30 #110

Why Canada? Polybius Dec 1 #123

And I might be a Chinese jet pilot. Fish700 Dec 1 #124

As if Canada would have us.... Blue_Tires Dec 1 #128

Another point of view Cirsium Dec 1 #130