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30. Motive irrelevant in a murder case?

Mon Dec 9, 2024, 03:02 PM

Dec 9

If you're convicting someone of intentional killing, you have to show... intent. Yea, the prosecution may rely on just the hard evidence of the mechanics of the shooting itself, it certainly looks intentional, but the defense can certainly offer more evidence as to the defendant's state of mind.

That's where the insanity defense, self-defense, heat of the moment defense, etc. come in.

If nothing else, they can ask the defendant on the stand and ask him "why did you do it." They're not going to refuse to let him answer that question if they want to use that strategy.

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Updated in Post 67. Some guy shot the head of a health insurance company in the back. [View all] MineralMan Dec 9 OP

Unless Trump pardons him. OLDMDDEM Dec 9 #1

Not a federal crime. Trump can't pardon him. MineralMan Dec 9 #2

Good point. But he did cross state lines. Isn't that make it a federal crime? OLDMDDEM Dec 9 #10

Yes, there are Federal Crimes involved, but not Murder. MineralMan Dec 9 #12

Why would Trump pardon him even if he could ? JI7 Dec 9 #9

You are probably right. OLDMDDEM Dec 9 #11

Trump is more likely to sic his DOJ on him. yardwork Dec 9 #32

The End H2O Man Dec 9 #3

Very good! MineralMan Dec 9 #4

Young good looking guy kills a rich CEO, the doc03 Dec 9 #5

Yep. Go back to sleep, go back to health insurance companies legally killing people for MONEY ck4829 Dec 9 #6

Unfortunately BannonsLiver Dec 9 #7

Not really. Two different things. MineralMan Dec 9 #54

Who Is Going Back to Sleep? MineralMan Dec 9 #14

Spot on! berksdem Dec 9 #28

+1. If I were a juror and he had personally witnessed the death of family/friend because of denials, I might have had Silent Type Dec 9 #8

I'd be willing to bet a large sum that he will be convicted easily. MineralMan Dec 9 #15

Is that why Kyle Rittenhouse walked? Emile Dec 9 #17

Well, think about the two cases. MineralMan Dec 9 #25

That's right, Rittenhouse shot and killed two Emile Dec 9 #59

Which of those two was MineralMan Dec 9 #61

Murder is only murder when the person killed is rich. Emile Dec 9 #62

That shoild not matter, MineralMan Dec 9 #63

Not the same DetroitLegalBeagle Dec 9 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Dec 9 #18

Nobody wants a five-year-old KIA Soul. MineralMan Dec 9 #23

Oh, like this case? Mr.WeRP Dec 9 #50

No, not like that case at all. MineralMan Dec 9 #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Mariana Dec 9 #44

That person wouldn't make it anywhere near the jury Random Boomer Dec 9 #64

Voir Dire will weed out anyone who admits to experiencing insurance denials haele Dec 18 #68

I don't know his motive, but judging from the public reaction, unblock Dec 9 #13

I don't think that defense will work. MineralMan Dec 9 #19

Motive irrelevant in a murder case? unblock Dec 9 #30

Intent and motive H2O Man Dec 9 #41

Agreed. The prosecution doesn't need to enter the defendant's mind. unblock Dec 9 #45

It sounds as if H2O Man Dec 9 #48

So, you are a lawyer in addition to a fortune teller? Mr.WeRP Dec 9 #47

No, not a lawyer. MineralMan Dec 9 #56

In New York it's second degree murder. This case does not meet the requirements for first degree murder in New York. unblock Dec 9 #16

A case could be made for the "act of terrorism, given his "manifesto." MineralMan Dec 9 #21

Rhetorically, maybe. But legally, under New York law, I seriously doubt it. unblock Dec 9 #33

"(i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population;" MineralMan Dec 9 #35

He did not do that, any more than any other murder does that. unblock Dec 9 #38

Interesting. Two other health insurance companies in Minnesota are shut down. MineralMan Dec 9 #39

They might go for the terrorism connection to get first-degree murder Random Boomer Dec 9 #65

I think it's a thin argument and a prosecutor would more likely go for the nearly sure thing second degree, but unblock Dec 9 #66

He has not even been charged and he isi g called "the shooter@ 33taw Dec 9 #20

Yes. That's true. MineralMan Dec 9 #22

Yes, we have all seen the tape of a person shooting 33taw Dec 9 #24

And soon, all the evidence showing that it was him will be available. MineralMan Dec 9 #26

I am sure we will. I still prefer he get a chance to defend himself 33taw Dec 9 #51

How can righteous moralizers preemptively wag their fingers if they have to wait for evidence and charges? Orrex Dec 9 #52

Of course. He'll have his time in court. MineralMan Dec 9 #53

There are people on Reddit wishing death on the McDonald's employee who tipped off NYPD nt Bookreadingliberal53 Dec 9 #27

There are people on Reddit who eat their own boogers, too. MineralMan Dec 9 #29

What low wage worker couldnt use the reward money? n/t leftstreet Dec 9 #34

I read it was an elderly patron who reported him Mr.WeRP Dec 9 #49

Your predictions have not had a high degree of accuracy Mr.WeRP Dec 9 #31

Oh, OK. Thanks. MineralMan Dec 9 #36

Social Media pretty full of RW brosphere posts... JCMach1 Dec 9 #37

It sure is. MineralMan Dec 9 #40

Second degree edhopper Dec 9 #42

Yes. An argument could be made, though. MineralMan Dec 9 #43

Not really edhopper Dec 9 #46

Yes. We seem to live by plea deals. You're right. MineralMan Dec 9 #57

So this boils down to one thing. GUNZ. madinmaryland Dec 9 #60

Update: In My OP, I predicted a First Degree Murder Charge for Mangione. MineralMan Dec 18 #67