General Discussion

maxsolomon

(35,452 posts)

173. how can you determine that is the case?

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:44 PM

Aug 2016

there is no separating the hijab from its cultural context.

I had a meeting with a Muslim woman in it yesterday. her hijab (with a built-in brim like a sunbonnet!) was utterly unnecessary, and occluded her vision. it "others" her from Americas of every other stripe but Muslim (well, maybe not Hutterites). it was like meeting with a nun from 40 years ago.

and she was very nice.

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What is your stance on burkinis or headscarves on French (or American) beaches (or streets)? [View all] muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 OP

1,3,5,6,7... FBaggins Aug 2016 #1

That's how I feel but I am afraid that head scarfs may make those women easy targets leftyladyfrommo Aug 2016 #26

I don't see this uproar over Hasidic women on the beach, equally covered, walking behind husband. TheBlackAdder Aug 2016 #90

Are there a lot of Hasidic women on French beaches? nt MADem Aug 2016 #112

Muslims have enough money to vacation in France. You know, oil and stuff. here's my views: Jeffersons Ghost Aug 2016 #132

It's a complicated situation. I don't think the people they are approaching are vacationers. MADem Aug 2016 #134

SOME OF YOU NEED TO WEAR BURKINIS!!! AllTooEasy Aug 2016 #139

What people wear is simply not my business jberryhill Aug 2016 #2

Really? I can't legislate the banning of these clothes, but I don't have to like them, and MADem Aug 2016 #68

And your point is what? jberryhill Aug 2016 #84

She can stop wearing that costume and not be murdered for it. MADem Aug 2016 #86

Then we need to ban cooking jberryhill Aug 2016 #87

More false equivalence. Cooking is like shitting--both genders do it. MADem Aug 2016 #93

Oh, is there some rule in France about what men may wear? jberryhill Aug 2016 #95

Well, yes, there is. MADem Aug 2016 #98

Go lock them up, then jberryhill Aug 2016 #103

Why are you trying to position me as the French police, with your "Go lock them up, then" whine? MADem Aug 2016 #107

Why are you taking issue with me saying "it's none of my business" jberryhill Aug 2016 #111

Not sure what your housekeeper has to do with French law, but that was quite the jump! MADem Aug 2016 #113

This thread was not about "French Law" jberryhill Aug 2016 #117

The burkini ban on Muslim women in France is all about "French law." MADem Aug 2016 #121

Perhaps scrolling up is too hard jberryhill Aug 2016 #122

Come on--you're playing the clueless card, and we know you're not that. MADem Aug 2016 #124

And you are playing the actually ignorant card jberryhill Aug 2016 #161

There isn't now, because the ban (and it was a temporary one) has been struck down by the courts. MADem Aug 2016 #172

You got owned Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #151

Adam Ruins Everything. Boys used to wear dresses, Pinks and blues are a recent marketing ploy. TheBlackAdder Aug 2016 #94

Let people be adults and chose their own level of modesty AllTooEasy Aug 2016 #138

What people wear and where they wear it MineralMan Aug 2016 #3

Right on! Sometimes people have natural allergies to sunlight or took sun-sensitive medication. TheBlackAdder Aug 2016 #91

Men have no business telling women they can't wear burkinis or must wear burkinis. Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #4

One wonders if the same standard would be applied lapislzi Aug 2016 #5

No, it's not applied evenhandedly jberryhill Aug 2016 #24

So..."Catholic" is part of the French identity... lapislzi Aug 2016 #33

The shrine is a private and specifically religious location. It's not government - owned or run. MADem Aug 2016 #89

Large crucifixes are against the law in French PUBLIC life. MADem Aug 2016 #69

Another reason why I'm glad I live in the US AllTooEasy Aug 2016 #135

Freedom OF religion--but not freedom FROM it. MADem Aug 2016 #136

Those fleeing Britain were religious nuts lapislzi Aug 2016 #162

They were--both religious nuts, AND insufferable. They threw people out of their little MADem Aug 2016 #167

That was not my question. lapislzi Aug 2016 #160

I'm torn- a person should be free to wear what they want but almost always there is no real choice Lee-Lee Aug 2016 #6

There's no cookie cutter answer to that question lapislzi Aug 2016 #8

We need to stop assuming that all/most are forced AllTooEasy Aug 2016 #137

You have to be carefully taught.... MADem Aug 2016 #149

These images, as a woman, make me feel very, very uncomfortable: demmiblue Aug 2016 #7

Exposure to sun can make me a lot sicker Warpy Aug 2016 #10

Why Arent the 2 cops Forced to wear beach attire shorts ? Is it about what is right for the beach Person 2713 Aug 2016 #30

I don't think the police are sunbathing. That's why they aren't wearing sunbathing costumes. MADem Aug 2016 #143

The cops need to be in Speedos. Crunchy Frog Aug 2016 #61

France has picked the wrong hill to die on Warpy Aug 2016 #9

This is a stupid poll. People can and should wear what they want. We don't need clothing Pisces Aug 2016 #11

It may seem stupid, but the choices basically came from the reactions here: muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #16

Wool Bathing Suits Donkees Aug 2016 #12

Those costumes are too immodest. MADem Aug 2016 #123

Her body, her choice. That's my position on it. closeupready Aug 2016 #13

Bingo, it really is that simple. Il_Coniglietto Aug 2016 #18

But, it's not her choice. She is forced to cover up and conceal her body because of zealot underahedgerow Aug 2016 #118

Burden of proof, on a case-by-case basis, is on you closeupready Aug 2016 #131

Case in point, females don't HAVE the right to choose. They can't choose their husbands, they underahedgerow Aug 2016 #145

+1,000,000! nt MADem Aug 2016 #148

They certainly don't now, because French authorities demand blind obedience. closeupready Aug 2016 #155

Ah but there's the rub, you see. Is it force when centuries old creepy cult beliefs cause anyone to underahedgerow Aug 2016 #156

You're not showing enough skin! How dare you! Iggo Aug 2016 #14

I won't wear them because I don't think that they look good on me. Orrex Aug 2016 #15

I wish they had the ability to refuse to wear them without repercussions. alarimer Aug 2016 #17

I'm with you. I also think there is quite a reactive situation going on with burkinis suffragette Aug 2016 #40

I am amazed at the "enabling" of fundamental extremism concealed under the guise of "choice" MADem Aug 2016 #45

Right? By suggesting it's the woman's choice, it's empowering the patriarchy instead of empowering underahedgerow Aug 2016 #127

How adeptly you voiced what I was trying to say!!! MADem Aug 2016 #129

I am not French. Their country, their rules. AngryAmish Aug 2016 #19

By that standard, treestar Aug 2016 #43

Yes I would. AngryAmish Aug 2016 #44

+1 Marr Aug 2016 #158

Burkini, fine. Headscarf, fine. Burqa, NOT fine. TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2016 #20

An Algerian expressed best why the burkini is insidious and wrong Albertoo Aug 2016 #21

Burkinis and headscarves, LWolf Aug 2016 #22

how can you determine that is the case? maxsolomon Aug 2016 #173

I can't. LWolf Aug 2016 #180

Burkas are oppression Calculating Aug 2016 #23

Couldn't Agree More RobinA Aug 2016 #25

Maybe we should work on sects started here in the United States first and get them in what you Person 2713 Aug 2016 #31

We have Amish at the beaches in Delaware all of the time jberryhill Aug 2016 #36

Lifestyle oppression and making others uncomfortable because they are clearly wearing clothes Person 2713 Aug 2016 #39

They aren't, as a religion, trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of us...or are they? MADem Aug 2016 #46

I have never had any Muslims trying to impose anything but Yes Crazy Christians ALL the time Person 2713 Aug 2016 #64

You've never been a victim of the Morality Police in Teheran!!! MADem Aug 2016 #65

Sects on the beach? True Dough Aug 2016 #59

Burkas are oppressive but Muslims in Indonesia (he largest Muslim country in the world) do not wear pampango Aug 2016 #38

Quota is totally wrong Nevernose Aug 2016 #51

Look how Iran changed after the revolution. MADem Aug 2016 #66

Just like how Western women are "conditioned" to wear skimpy clothes to please men? Odin2005 Aug 2016 #154

i disagree. maxsolomon Aug 2016 #177

What a person chooses to wear isn't my business, or that of the French government. Avalux Aug 2016 #27

Oh, it IS the business of the French government--they are secular, and they frown upon MADem Aug 2016 #80

My stance is very basic MurrayDelph Aug 2016 #28

As a cancer survivor I'm advised to sunblock and wear coverage while out in the sun for hours. eShirl Aug 2016 #29

I think once you wear one you will change your mind. MADem Aug 2016 #99

I have very fair skin and vomit when I'm in the sun too much. I wear linen during the summer underahedgerow Aug 2016 #126

I think it's a case of MYOB Gormy Cuss Aug 2016 #32

Are they banning ALL religious oriented garb? leftstreet Aug 2016 #34

Of course not jberryhill Aug 2016 #35

What a charming--and very VINTAGE--photograph! MADem Aug 2016 #55

You're awesome. That is all. eissa Aug 2016 #56

.... MADem Aug 2016 #71

Seriously? leftstreet Aug 2016 #63

We've had color photography for many years, now. MADem Aug 2016 #73

I await the ban on these nuns' habits. Il_Coniglietto Aug 2016 #75

Italy (where your pic was taken) is a CATHOLIC country. France, OTOH, is SECULAR. MADem Aug 2016 #85

And? Do you think there are no French nuns? Il_Coniglietto Aug 2016 #88

No one seems to be able to show me a pic of French nuns in old-school habits MADem Aug 2016 #92

I have worn hijab so please don't assume. Il_Coniglietto Aug 2016 #101

Oh really? That's quite a user name you've got there, you hijab wearing male wabbit, you! MADem Aug 2016 #104

LMAO! Il_Coniglietto Aug 2016 #109

I hate immigrants? Really? MADem Aug 2016 #110

"...they prioritize their 'Frenchness' and they don't particularly want their society diluted..." Il_Coniglietto Aug 2016 #163

They DO. Maybe you should have asked for a definition of "Frenchiness" before you lashed out with MADem Aug 2016 #164

+1,000,000. Thank you. closeupready Aug 2016 #165

To be precise, that photo is from Rio's Copacabana beach muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #140

Ah ha!!! MADem Aug 2016 #142

Have you considered getting an editor for your posts? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #146

Wow, have you ever considered getting a Politeness Coach? MADem Aug 2016 #147

Oh please leftstreet Aug 2016 #77

Here, a little something to maybe make you think a bit harder on this issue. MADem Aug 2016 #83

...which has nothing to do with the OP leftstreet Aug 2016 #97

Let me deconstruct your misstatement of fact. MADem Aug 2016 #108

and there it is... leftstreet Aug 2016 #115

Yes, there it is. MADem Aug 2016 #125

So it seems: "Nuns cannot wear their habits on our beaches, says deputy mayor of Cannes" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #141

I imagine that will disappoint some who really thought they had a winner with all those old pictures MADem Aug 2016 #150

Your imagination seems to bear little relation to reality muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #152

Just another way to shame women about their bodies. I'm looking at YOU, France. Hekate Aug 2016 #37

Live and let live - for heavens sake - asiliveandbreathe Aug 2016 #41

How about, "It's none of my business" gratuitous Aug 2016 #42

If you're telling grown women what they can and can't wear... backscatter712 Aug 2016 #47

Burkinis are ugly. romanic Aug 2016 #48

I think people should be allowed to choose for themselves what they wear. Period. Full Stop. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #49

I don't think so either.......seems like some of the same crowd offended by both ironically Person 2713 Aug 2016 #106

Yeah. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #114

Better than dudes in Speedos. Throd Aug 2016 #50

Com'on...there's nothing better than dudes in Speedos. Especially elderly portly, dudes. CincyDem Aug 2016 #52

Why? Because they look ''gay''? Some of us can wear a speedo because we take care of our bodies. YOHABLO Aug 2016 #54

probably because some people let themselves go, then wear the speedos anyways. my children cannot bravenak Aug 2016 #57

"....with all their interests hanging out!" MADem Aug 2016 #128

Your mechanic is right!! bravenak Aug 2016 #130

Bad memories of pale, portly German tourists on the beaches of Malaga in the 70's. Throd Aug 2016 #58

They are not wearing them for your approval jberryhill Aug 2016 #119

LOL--don't always assume that the dislike of speedos has anything to do with homophobia!!! MADem Aug 2016 #74

In the US, I don't think a burkini could be banned. Ilsa Aug 2016 #53

We have "freedom of religion." You can wear a cross as big as a Christmas tree and no one MADem Aug 2016 #78

They really are not that much different than what Amish women wear. appleannie1 Aug 2016 #60

True enough, and the men are equally covered and "plain." n/t phylny Aug 2016 #72

Personally find them offensive (on 2 fronts) but ... Panich52 Aug 2016 #62

Nuns don't seem to be affected on French beaches. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2016 #67

Those are Italian nuns on an Italian beach! MADem Aug 2016 #96

Remember skinny dipping? kwassa Aug 2016 #70

You have not been threatened by Isis to blow up beach goers pbmus Aug 2016 #76

I am not going to play this game. nt longship Aug 2016 #79

I don't care. Should be a free world. Rex Aug 2016 #81

Not for me to say. moondust Aug 2016 #82

Yup. +1 Arazi Aug 2016 #102

No one has the right to tell women that they cannot choose hijab! mwrguy Aug 2016 #100

How, exactly? I'm curious. Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #116

They will look back at this mwrguy Aug 2016 #168

well I'm sure we agree that telling people what to wear or not wear, do or not do is wrong! Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #174

Jesus. Marr Aug 2016 #159

You think I am threatening the nation of France? mwrguy Aug 2016 #169

Oh, don't be coy. Marr Aug 2016 #170

FFS, check yourself. maxsolomon Aug 2016 #179

Its a cloth. Eko Aug 2016 #105

i support the Burqa ban but the specific case in France just seemed wrong JI7 Aug 2016 #120

If we must ban something on the beach, make it accordions or bagpipes or both! n/t Binkie The Clown Aug 2016 #133

TYT weighted in yuiyoshida Aug 2016 #144

People have a right to wear what they want. Odin2005 Aug 2016 #153

Law has been overturned by France's top court. closeupready Aug 2016 #157

Good. About time France's brain-damaged morons got smacked down. backscatter712 Aug 2016 #166

Absolutely. If, on the other hand, a woman is being coerced closeupready Aug 2016 #175

The day I'm allowed to swim naked, I'll support any type of garment for others. nt. FigTree Aug 2016 #171

But ... Thats different!!!!!! Warren DeMontague Aug 2016 #182

This is all a conspiracy to fund Big Sunblock citood Aug 2016 #176

If the woman is okay with it let it be. LiberalFighter Aug 2016 #178

I think it's ridiculous to start policing dress IVoteDFL Aug 2016 #181