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haele

(13,648 posts)
43. Free speech is free speeh. But what is speech? Is it something tangible and attributable?
Tue Sep 13, 2016, 01:00 PM
Sep 2016

Is aggressive influence - coercion or blackmail free speech? Is lying - fraud - free speech? Coercion, blackmail, libel, slander, and misleading speech with the purpose to harm or defraud have legal definitions and are regulated under law.
That's the problem in a nutshell.
Breaking laws and legal contracts, even unjust ones carries a cost, even if it's just a day in court to prove the law or legal contract cannot withstand scrutiny.
While a whistleblower has a right to call attention to illegal or dangerous activities, there's also the disgruntled and equally liable employee who wants to stir shit by "exposing" strategies or activities out of context or picking on a few particular activities to justify bringing down an organization as payback for not getting what s/he wants from it.

I'm not saying Snowden is one or the other when he blew the whistle and exposed confidential material from his employer to the public. He did what he did, whether it was for his stated reasons, or for others, or a mix of the two. I personally have a problem with his eventual flight to Russia, but that's because of my feelings about the state of and respect for information security - especially personal information, not just state information - in Russia. Russia isn't Iceland or Switzerland; there's a geo-political element in Russia that is just as interested in hegemony and is just as fascist as elements in the US are.

He has the right to have his day in court - especially since he is not in the military and not considered extra-constitutional. Who knows, he may get an impartial judge and jury - because I'm sure he will be able to access ACLU lawyers who are willing to make the point that he isn't a shit stirrer, but an actual whistleblower, and deserves protection.
That's what they're there for. To give everyone a chance to actually look at the legal issues behind all aspects in case by case situations, not only popular opinion, social trends, or traditions.
The ability for others to twist a position that ensures fairness under the Constitution for their own benefit is no reason to throw out that position for the people who need it.
(Though I do have some question to the idea that the ability to purchase rights being the same constitutionally as the rights of people in general...)

As to the potential for social ostracism issue that goes along with being a whistleblower, that's part of the risk of whistleblowing.
In history, most heroes - especially whistleblowers and those who seek to fight for the betterment of society at large only become Heroes after they're dead. Being a Hero isn't easy, and requires courage to face the fact one may have to be considered a villain while society comes to terms with what needs to be done. A Hero takes his or her lumps.
The expectation of being lauded a Hero for doing the right thing while still living is for deluded Walter Mitty types or narcissistic fame seekers.

Haele

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Much of DU already hates the ACLU for supporting the Citizens United decision (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #1
ya can't help but question that move for sure. very very strange Divine Discontent Sep 2016 #2
I don't Bucky Sep 2016 #8
Amen to that Bucky. Dyedinthewoolliberal Sep 2016 #20
Well said PatSeg Sep 2016 #30
YOU ONLY SPEAK FOR YOURSELF & A FEW REPUBLICANS!!! Jeffersons Ghost Sep 2016 #14
Do you have a link or anything? demmiblue Sep 2016 #3
THE ACLU AND CITIZENS UNITED Omaha Steve Sep 2016 #37
I support the ACLU when I agree with them.... Adrahil Sep 2016 #4
^^^ THIS ^^^ Tarheel_Dem Sep 2016 #5
+1 uponit7771 Sep 2016 #40
ACLU has defended the Klan, T-Baggers and Limbaugh among others. lpbk2713 Sep 2016 #6
ACLU position on flag desecration klook Sep 2016 #27
+1, good point... they have a history of having the strength of their convictions uponit7771 Sep 2016 #41
I turned on them 40 years ago marybourg Sep 2016 #7
Yes, god forbid you uphold a principle when it applies to shitheads. X_Digger Sep 2016 #11
They can speak, but they're marybourg Sep 2016 #16
you gotta do what you gotta do, but I can explain my reasoning for reaching Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #22
"I support free speech. Not as a preference, but as a principle." NaturalHigh Sep 2016 #24
Strange reason to "turn" on them...I thought the ACLU was incredibly brave and courageous tritsofme Sep 2016 #12
"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship" LongtimeAZDem Sep 2016 #17
If he wishes to speak, fine. marybourg Sep 2016 #18
But my money is MY speech AlbertCat Sep 2016 #32
"Corporations are people, my friend." -- Rmoney. Iggo Sep 2016 #35
The only proper response would be to get yourself... Rochester Sep 2016 #19
I hate Illinois nazis. Iggo Sep 2016 #36
That has happened many times liberal N proud Sep 2016 #9
If they have to remain 'pure' and can't make decisions on their own... randome Sep 2016 #10
The ACLU went over the top ages ago. MohRokTah Sep 2016 #13
Free Him,,,, Has Russia Locked him up Cryptoad Sep 2016 #15
There are people here who think that it should be illegal to draw 'blasphemous' cartoons. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #21
Since the ACLU is very pro-free speech... NaturalHigh Sep 2016 #23
DU has never really liked the ACLU linuxman Sep 2016 #25
Ten minuites n/t Kilgore Sep 2016 #26
while i respect the ACLU, i also have often thought some of their stances went against my principles La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2016 #28
DU is never more than one Rawstory 'article' away from turning on anything. Bonx Sep 2016 #29
LOL...I only wish I could disagree. NaturalHigh Sep 2016 #39
?? Been away from DU for awhile, have we? Blue_Tires Sep 2016 #31
Correct! Everyone is falling for Stone's marketing for his film. FSogol Sep 2016 #33
There are many authoritarians among Democrats alarimer Sep 2016 #34
That is their right however naive I think they're being but arthritisR_US Sep 2016 #38
I support free speech for all including assholes. PufPuf23 Sep 2016 #42
Free speech is free speeh. But what is speech? Is it something tangible and attributable? haele Sep 2016 #43
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