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Jeebo

(2,315 posts)
Sun Dec 8, 2024, 11:33 PM Dec 8

I got a jury summons. [View all]

Last edited Thu Dec 12, 2024, 02:53 PM - Edit history (2)

I got it on October 26. I have not answered it. I have not even opened the envelope. A follow-up summons came in the mail two days ago, on Friday. I haven't opened it either. I am like the proverbial ostrich with its head stuck in the sand. I dread what's in those envelopes so much that I just cannot bring myself to open them.

Why do I dread jury service so much? Several reasons. This will be a long post because I want to explain thoroughly how I feel about this subject.

First is the pay. The judge gets $180 grand a year, with benefits. Some of the lawyers get hundreds of dollars an hour. The court reporter and bailiff get solid middle-class salaries, with benefits. What do the jurors get? Six dollars a day. Not six dollars an hour, which also would be a pathetically sub-standard wage, but six dollars a DAY. That "wage" is a profound insult. I want very badly to simply refuse to respond to the summons because I refuse to work for six dollars a day, but if I do that, will the judge cite me for contempt of court? If this happens, the contempt will be coming from the court and judge, because what could be more contemptuous than requiring somebody to work for six dollars a DAY under threat of legal penalties if you refuse? I claim autonomy over my body, over my time, and over the fruits of my labors. What jurors do in a courtroom is just as important as what the judge and lawyers and court reporter and bailiff do, so why aren't jurors paid a decent salary? I don't expect to get hundreds of dollars an hour like some of the lawyers do, but I do expect a reasonable wage, 150 percent of minimum wage, let's say. I think minimum wage here in Missouri is about $12 an hour, so I would expect $18 an hour. That would be a reasonable rate of pay for what amounts to a part-time temporary job. Please don't say "Jury duty is not a job, but a civic duty." It is a civic duty, but it is also a job, and they shouldn't be able to get away with paying chickenshit wages by just calling the job something else. While I'm sitting in that juror box for $6 a DAY and listening to that slick lawyer giving me his smarmy spiel in his $2,000 suit and perfect hair and being paid $450 an HOUR, my resentment of that pay differential will make me very much inclined not to believe a word he says. I suspect those rates were set way back when six dollars a day was a reasonable wage. How long ago was that? I RESENT being expected to do this job for $6 a DAY. I resent it BITTERLY.

Second is that oath they make you take. I would have no objection to the oath if it weren't for the last four words, "... so help you God". Those words SHOULD NOT be a part of that oath. What the hell do they even mean? Whose god is being invoked? Hindu? Muslim? Jewish? Catholic? Protestant? Old Testament? New Testament? And what role is that god being expected to play in those proceedings? Doesn't God give us all free will to decide for ourselves whether we're going to tell the truth? And didn't Jesus tell us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's? Those four words tacked unnecessarily onto the end of that oath are an attempt to render unto God that which is Caesar's. If I object to that oath because of those last four words, will I get cited for contempt because I refuse to take the oath? If they have an alternate oath they give to non-believers, I still will be calling attention to my religious beliefs by objecting and other people in the courtroom will start wondering if I'm an atheist or something. Some of them might even ask me about it. Which shows why those four words should not be a part of that oath. If I have to swear to that oath, I will resent it. I will resent it BITTERLY.

Third is having to get up so early in the morning. I AM NOT a day person. They will require jurors to be there at 8 a.m. Keeping those hours will make me MISERABLE. I never was able to get my parents to admit it, but I've always thought that I must be descended from vampires. Go to bed earlier and get up earlier? That won't work because I won't be able to sleep going to bed that early, and also just because it will just feel WRONG being in bed at 9 p.m. or being up before 8 a.m. I worked for 45 years for a morning newspaper (retired now), which means I worked nights, which was perfect for my night-owl disposition. If I have to go and sit in that jury box at 8 a.m. and stay there for several hours, I won't be able to stay awake, and it might even make me physically ill. And I will resent being forced to keep those hours.

Fourth is my awareness that judges and lawyers keep a lot of information away from juries. There was a case in February 2003 involving a man named Ed Rosenthal who was growing medicinal marijuana under the auspices of the Oakland, California, city government. He was convicted in a federal courthouse in Oakland, after the judge would not let Mr. Rosenthal's defense attorneys tell the jury why he was growing that marijuana, or that it was in cooperation with the city of Oakland. After Mr. Rosenthal was convicted, five members of the jury were very angry when they learned those facts that had been kept carefully hidden from them. Those jurors petitioned the judge to be able to change their verdict. They demonstrated at the courthouse and attended subsequent court appearances with Mr. Rosenthal, offering him support. I have heard of other cases in which jurors regretted their verdict when they learned after the trial of information that had been kept from them. I decided when I heard about Mr. Rosenthal's case, and other similar cases since then, that if I ever sit on a jury, I WILL NOT be in the position that those regretful jurors were in. So during the trial, I will be aware that there is information that is being kept from me, that I am not being allowed to consider or even to be aware of, and that that hidden information very likely will have an effect on the verdict I will render. And that uncertainty about that "known unknown" (to borrow a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld) will constitute a reasonable doubt in my mind. And that reasonable doubt will be a reason for me to render a verdict of "not guilty". I will, in fact, render a "not guilty" verdict in almost any trial in which I am a juror. There are a few exceptions. I would have convicted O.J. Simpson, for example. I would have convicted Kyle Rittenhouse. I would have convicted George Zimmerman. There was a guy in Wisconsin some years back whose defense at his rape trial was that the victim asked him to use a condom, and that constituted consent. I thought when I heard that lame excuse that if this is the best defense this guy can come up with, he really IS guilty. But in almost any case, I would be a really hard sell for any prosecutor. Defense attorneys would love to have me in their jury, but prosecutors would move heaven to keep me off the jury.

I'm not going to include a link to the Ed Rosenthal case, but if y'all want to read about it, Google Rosenthal Oakland marijuana trial and I'm sure it will come up.

For now, though, I'm really worried that some cops are going to show up at my door to haul me off to court to face a contempt citation because I haven't responded to those summonses, and I'm soliciting y'all's suggestions, especially from those of you who are lawyers or judges. Or have some other courtroom experience, because I have none.

-- Ron

73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I got a jury summons. [View all] Jeebo Dec 8 OP
Depending on the law in your state you could be facing a very stiff fine. Ocelot II Dec 8 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author ItsjustMe Dec 8 #2
I bet you're fun at parties! JoseBalow Dec 9 #12
Why did you even bother commenting? Luciferous Dec 9 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author ItsjustMe Dec 9 #21
Your post was rude and unnecessary Luciferous Dec 9 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author ItsjustMe Dec 9 #24
but you cared enough to comment? Blues Heron Dec 9 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author ItsjustMe Dec 9 #31
Good luck dweller Dec 8 #3
Likely, prospective jurors have the option to AFFIRM, rather than SWEAR, 'so help me g-d.' elleng Dec 8 #4
In Addition... ProfessorGAC Dec 9 #69
Likely common elleng Dec 9 #70
open them up now Skittles Dec 9 #5
try saying this - if they were innocent they wouldnt be here in court nt msongs Dec 9 #6
or wear a T-shirt that says I DON'T LIKE YOU SINCE YOU ATE MY DOG Skittles Dec 9 #7
I don't have any good advice for you. Hope22 Dec 9 #8
About 10 years (?) ago, I was summoned for jury duty... GReedDiamond Dec 9 #9
Just plead hardship, don't ignore. LoisB Dec 9 #10
Tell them you hate cops JoseBalow Dec 9 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 9 #25
Dust off grandpa's old SS uniform JoseBalow Dec 9 #29
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 9 #30
The last time I was summoned, I brought a few astrology books and charts fierywoman Dec 9 #13
I tell them that cops lie, so do prosecutors RainCaster Dec 9 #14
Do you believe cops and prosecutors lie? PJMcK Dec 9 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 9 #26
It is legal for them to lie in order to get a confession RainCaster Dec 9 #40
You are correct about legal lying PJMcK Dec 9 #67
I don't have guts like that. I have to go in Feb. to downtown L.A. 20 miles from home. C Moon Dec 9 #15
Just go. It is your civic duty. You'll probably won't get picked anyway because the odds aren't very good. emulatorloo Dec 9 #16
I just tell them that I can't serve because I'm leading a Wonder Why Dec 9 #17
Your excuses are selfish PJMcK Dec 9 #18
I Have No Reluctance Either ProfessorGAC Dec 9 #71
Although I agree with some of your reasons, I do think you should answer the summons 10 Turtle Day Dec 9 #23
I would have laughed. Jeebo Dec 9 #47
It's your civic duty. Elessar Zappa Dec 9 #28
Karma would say that if you ever need a jury, you get one with the same beliefs about serving that you have MichMan Dec 9 #32
you aren't as special as you think you are Kali Dec 9 #33
Tell the judge you cannot be fair and impartial Beachnutt Dec 9 #34
You obviously misunderstood your civics classes if they ever had them. FSogol Dec 9 #35
Save yourself a world of hurt Easterncedar Dec 9 #36
I got the questionaire earlier this year nuxvomica Dec 9 #37
This is exactly why I don't vote. Midnight Writer Dec 9 #38
I hope you're kidding. sinkingfeeling Dec 9 #39
I'm quite sure they are kidding. Ocelot II Dec 9 #41
Making fun of the OP Kaleva Dec 9 #52
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 9 #42
Well done satire is priceless. yardwork Dec 9 #54
WELL DONE Skittles Dec 9 #68
I do love a good satirical piece of writing! 10 Turtle Day Dec 10 #73
the summons vapor2 Dec 9 #43
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 9 #44
Answer the summons. Dulcinea Dec 9 #45
Thanks for the input, y'all. Jeebo Dec 9 #46
Send in a copy of your post. I imagine this will assist Prairie_Seagull Dec 9 #56
It's likely I'll never serve on a jury. hunter Dec 9 #48
It is your civic duty to respond to your summons coprolite Dec 9 #49
thank you Skittles Dec 9 #66
Colorado pays $50.00 per day soldierant Dec 9 #50
My job pays for jury duty so I'm not even sure I got jimfields33 Dec 9 #51
Probably Not ProfessorGAC Dec 9 #72
I think you should be eager to accept the opportunity to practice what you spoke of in the OP. Think. Again. Dec 9 #53
Apparently doing one's civic duty isn't for everyone Kaleva Dec 9 #55
We have to face the fact that some people get stressed about things that we may not! Hope22 Dec 9 #60
About the oath... MiHale Dec 9 #57
My dr got me out forevrr XanaDUer2 Dec 9 #58
You can just throw it away. They have no proof that you ever actually received the summons. beaglelover Dec 9 #59
Jury duty ForgedCrank Dec 9 #61
It is too a job! Jeebo Dec 9 #62
If it ForgedCrank Dec 9 #63
It's a job that you do as part of your civic duty. Jeebo Dec 9 #64
Whatever man. ForgedCrank Dec 9 #65
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