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LeftishBrit

(41,305 posts)
29. First of all, I do agree that the Remain campaign was very poor; that if it had been better we might
Thu Jun 22, 2017, 05:13 AM
Jun 2017

not be in this mess; and, in particular, that George Osborne lost votes for Remain every time he opened his pie-hole.

But:

You are treating opposition to Brexit and opposition to the economic and other policies of the RW government as separable. In fact, Brexit is a vehicle for right-wingers to be able to pursue their policies in an untrammelled manner.

It is like someone saying in 1960s America, 'It is more important to make the country more liberal than to insist on Southern states complying with federal directives', when in fact 'states rights' were being used as a vehicle for resisting civil rights. As an abstract constitutional issue, the relations between state and federal government could indeed be seen as a relatively low priority. But it was not just an abstract constitutional issue. It was crucial to fighting hard-right policies. And the successes in doing so were only partial - nevertheless this does not mean that 'states rights' should have just been accepted in the service of Jim Crow.

Similarly, while we may not get into a perfect situation even if we remain in the EU, we are certainly fucked if we don't; and the main REASON why the right-wingers want to Brexit is to enable their policies. Some are mainly anti-immigrant; some want the UK to become a tax haven for the super-rich; some want a 'bonfire' of employment, environmental and employment regulations. All resent the EU for interfering with their untrammelled 'freedom' to pursue their right-wing goals.

I would add that all UK DU-ers, to my knowledge, are very anti-Brexit. It is not just Denzil's specific Scottish concerns. It is the unanimous view of people from different parts of the UK, with different views on a number of political issues, but all left-of-centre to varying degrees; all anti-Trump - and all anti-Brexit.

I'd have a bit more respect for the arguments there... Ken Burch Jun 2017 #1
Ha, wondered when you'd be along. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #2
Is there any possible honorable way for Labour to go full-on anti-Brexit at this point? Ken Burch Jun 2017 #3
OK, I'll try to take this para by para. But first your OP line: Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #4
I'm aware that a large group of Labour politicians before Corbyn came along Ken Burch Jun 2017 #5
Do you have any idea the economic mess the UK was in before it joined the EC? Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #6
What was done to Greece is what will be done to ANY left government under the EU. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #7
You mentioned the Attlee example simply because you don't have any answer at all Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #8
There is some pretty good stuff in Labour's platform... T_i_B Jun 2017 #9
Thanks, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #10
The reason why they can get away with it right now.... T_i_B Jun 2017 #11
"white van man", not "white can man" Ken Burch Jun 2017 #12
Dude, if you're going to pick on an obvious typo Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #13
Sorry, the "can man" thing was meant as a joke Ken Burch Jun 2017 #14
Read this thread here: Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #15
I know the routine. And I'd have voted Remain. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #16
See, for you it's the luxury of being a hypothetical issue. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #17
This is pretty much the same argument.... T_i_B Jun 2017 #18
Well, the Labour manifesto's carefully worded. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #19
I'm not "rabid anti-EU". I support them on the parts of what they do that are progressive. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #25
Well, "Jeremy" must be a grave disappointment to you. Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #27
I'm fine with what Corbyn's doing there. I've never been rabidly anti-EU and you know it. Ken Burch Jun 2017 #28
First of all, I do agree that the Remain campaign was very poor; that if it had been better we might LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #29
"I think your feelings about Corbyn are driven by he apparent Labour-Tory cooperation in Scotland." Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #30
OK, I withdraw the word "apparent"...I use that word to mean "essentially proved" Ken Burch Jun 2017 #32
Well, if he stopped telling blatant lies about the SNP's record in government when he comes up here Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #33
You are assuming that the two are separable LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #21
'All it can lead to is lost seats...' LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #22
While I do not defend the EU's treatment of Greece, it was not mainly an ideological assault LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #23
You seem not to have noticed that Denmark now has a right-wing, anti-immigrant government Ken Burch Jun 2017 #26
So the EU's responsible for the choices of the Danish electorate? Denzil_DC Jun 2017 #31
'The EU didn't exist when Labour created the post-war social welfare state' LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #24
Good article! LeftishBrit Jun 2017 #20
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