Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Denzil_DC

(7,944 posts)
10. The "poll" Ken's referring to,
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 11:28 AM
Aug 2017

Last edited Thu Aug 31, 2017, 12:37 PM - Edit history (2)

which has been eagerly seized on by Labour hardline loyalists up here, is a small subsample of a national poll which amounted to around 125 people. You might as well disembowel a chicken.

Unless things have changed, all the evidence is that the "Corbyn bounce" has passed Scotland by. At the election, the most optimistic projections put it at an extra 10,000 votes - just enough to put Labour in third place behind the Tories, which is where they've remained in all the full pols I've seen (not that there've been many, and none I'd wager on).

Corbyn's visit up here was a damp squib. He had healthy audiences at indoor gigs in the Western Isles, Glasgow and at the Edinburgh Fringe, but other than that, the turnout's been pathetic. And even at those well-attended events, most were likely party loyalists, union delegates and Labour apparatchiks or elected members, so hardly effective outreach.

Corbyn also made a series of gaffes during his visit.

He accused the SNP of failing to mitigate Tory austerity in Scotland. Bollocks. The Scottish Government spends millions mitigating the likes of the bedroom tax, while Labour at Westminster either abstains or actively supports a great number of austerity measures, even in its last manifesto.

He claimed that the SNP privatized the Scottish railway system (earlier, he also wrongly claimed the SNP had privatized Scottish ferry services), indicating he's either a liar or a dunce. The SNP only gained the power to have a public-sector bidder for rail services last year, after the most recent contract with Abellio had been signed. Doing otherwise, let alone going for nationalization, would be have been illegal under current legislation.

He promised that Labour would build over 100,000 new public sector houses in Glasgow to overcome the drastic shortfall in supply. Labour was in control of Glasgow City Council until earlier this year, and had evidently done far too little to address this need. The SNP are now in power there and have already instigated a programme to address it. When Labour was in power in Holyrood, it built all of 6 (yes, six) public sector houses (some argue only one got built, and the other five were completed after Labour were ejected). Under the SNP, there's been a concerted programme of hundreds of thousands of public sector and affordable houses.

I could go on and on with examples where he's insultingly ignorant about Scotland (contrast this with his lifelong interest in Ireland), including an interview statement from Corbyn about having different rules under Brexit for different parts of the UK being impossible because you can't have different legal systems in the same country. Scotland has had its own famously discrete and independent judicial system since the Act of union. You'd expect a long-serving MP to know this.

Corbyn is largely irrelevant to Scottish Labour's problems except as a focus for division, as the weeks ahead will no doubt show. Those problems will always exist no matter who's the leader while Scottish Labour is literally just a branch office (technically, in electoral terms, an accounting unit) of UK Labour. We have different priorities up here, and asking us repeatedly to subsume them to the needs of the UK as a whole is one major reason Labour foundered in Scotland in the first place.

He majored on criticizing the SNP, only criticizing the Tories in the UK (and Tories in Scotland not at all) by blaming the SNP for the outcomes of policies over which it has no control - and Labour should know this because it voted against giving meaningful control to the Scottish Parliament during the Smith Commission (whose recommendations were further watered down to neuter Holyrood by the Tory-controlled Scottish Office). Labour only ever had the ambition of Holyrood being a sop to nationalism and a talking shop like a glorified regional council. Now it's no longer guaranteed to be a party of control in Scotland, it's got little interest in using the parliament as anything other than a venue to bash the SNP.

Almost all the positive messages Corbyn had to convey on his brief visit to Scotland were things the SNP is actually doing anyway - and often against bitter opposition from Scottish Labour! It would be a surprise to many of you who're used to critical coverage of the man in your media to see how easy a ride the press up here is giving him about all this.

He'd do better with the likes of me on his excursions to the northern reaches of the Empire if he acknowledged the good things the SNP are doing as an example of how things could work in the rest of the country. But he's tribal. Like a lot of the remaining Labour supporters. And while Labour in Scotland (and probably the rest of the UK) sees the SNP as "the true enemy", rather than Tory policies, he'll get nowhere with me. Make the most of him Down South. He doesn't have a message I'm convinced by, and I've lived long enough to have seen how Labour promises evaporate once they're in power more than once.

I always felt sorry for Dugdale T_i_B Aug 2017 #1
She DID stand up to Corbyn...in fact, she spent much of her tenure fighting to remove him Ken Burch Aug 2017 #2
Corbyn is a London politician... T_i_B Aug 2017 #3
Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #4
Location matters. T_i_B Aug 2017 #5
OK...but since any politician from anywhere is going to have some local loyalties, Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6
Actually, it tends to be more of an asset for most politicians T_i_B Aug 2017 #7
Agreed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #8
I would ask Denzil about polls and popularity in Scotland... T_i_B Aug 2017 #9
The "poll" Ken's referring to, Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #10
I agree with you on some points: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #11
Point by point: Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #12
I was wrong on the Smith Commission date. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #13
Corbyn was Labour leader when the Scotland Act 2016 was debated and voted through Parliament. Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #14
As always, I learn from your posts. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #15
You obviously shouldn't just take what I say on trust. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #16
Thanks for the info about the likely sucessors to Dugdale. T_i_B Sep 2017 #17
Well, yes to all that, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #18
There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
I can see a case for voting SNP in Holyrood elections. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Dude, I'm not going to respond to your post above this one Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #22
I know Callaghan's government itself was a trainwreck Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24
Listen. Listen good, because I'm about done wasting my time on you. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #25
It was Heath that did the three-day week. And I'm not defending Callaghan. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #26
Mea culpa. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #27
My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
A backgrounder from the Glasgow Herald's Tom Gordon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #19
Another backgrounder from the Herald, this time from Paul Hutcheon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #23
Well now ... Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #28
YouGov: "Why the Labour centrists stand a better chance in Scotland" Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #30
As you pointed out, most of those who would be "Corbynyista" ended up in the SNP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #31
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't actually read what I write, Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #32
Finally, the leadership election results, and the winner is ... Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
"Reality" TV shows? T_i_B Nov 2017 #34
What is it about politicians swanning off from their jobs to appear on reality shows? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
On the brighter side, I reckon it finished off the serious period of Galloway's career! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #36
Davidson on a Bake Off special wouldn't have taken much time muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #37
Yeah. If she's a crap baker, she could be out of there in no time! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Does make you wonder about the list system T_i_B Nov 2017 #40
It does. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #41
Ugh. This is NOT a promising start from Leonard. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #39
It's not getting any better Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #42
What on earth is happening with Scottish Labour at present? T_i_B Oct 2018 #43
AFAIK, it's actually a separate strain of infighting, and endemic to Scottish labour. Denzil_DC Oct 2018 #44
Latest Discussions»Region Forums»United Kingdom»Breaking: Kezia Dugdale ...»Reply #10