I have a number of links on this GD thread re Syria

[Mass]

93. I am going to disagree with you (or at least say this is not what bothers me).

If anything, I wished they had a better feeling of what the left means (if anything). I wished they cared about a stronger action from the government, not a weaker. I find that what you call the radical left wants less government.

I have dramatically reduced my presence on DU this last year, but it is largely because this is crazy land. I feel an outsider not because I disagree with the ideas that are prevalent on DU but because it does not seem possible to have a discussion on ideas. All seems to become personal and frankly, it bothers me. I think that we (the left) are losing in this dynamics.

The left means wanting those who are oppressed to make progress. We should have tons of threads concerning fast food workers and their strike: nothing. We should have threads increasing minimum wage: when have they ever existed on DU. Nobody on the left would subscribe to the notion of the 99%. Nobody on the left would believe that student loans interest rates are the problem. They are not. The fact that even public colleges and CC are too expensive is the problem and the proposal of Obama will do little to win.

So, let's be clear. About 15 % of DU is on the left. Most of them are those who fight with ideas, not invectives. The rest are just loud mouths who like other loud mouths. Frankly, the fact that they thought Wiener or Edwards were from the left is a sign they have no idea what they are talking about. The fact that some think Liz Warren is from the left is also a sign they do not know what they are talking about.


One of the major issue that I see on DU is that people are more here to support or attack somebody than to care about ideas. It is true that there is a fight for the soul of the party, but too often, the fight is not on issues (I know I repeat myself here), the fight is on personality: Obama is God, Obama is bad. Kerry is god, Kerry is bad.

So that it is clear, I agree with the anger on Syria. I am totally lost on what the government is trying to accomplish in Syria and ready to say "the hell with them". I have little doubt that the Syrian government has used gases (they may not be the only ones though). But I do not think that Obama or Kerry have made the case. They actually seem to be dubious (Kerry said there was no military solution in Syria, so what are they trying to accomplish).

I have often thought about leaving, and I may leave someday, but, while I understand your point and I am sure it applies to you and others, this is not my problem. The problem is the ignorance of many of these people.

To be clear, I have always known Kerry was to my right and it is clear that sometimes, I have had trouble defending him. I cannot defend him today. But disagreeing on ideas does not mean becoming Rush Limbaugh. I have no problem with those who bring the IWR today. It is relevant.