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thucythucy

(8,742 posts)
32. I wanted to add something else.
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 06:58 PM
Dec 2013

For whatever reasons, there seems to be some hostility, even on a progressive Democratic website, toward the Violence Against Women Act. This is pretty depressing, actually. You'd think a law providing services to rape and incest and domestic violence victims would be a no-brainer for Democrats, but evidently that's not the case.

It's almost as if something has been handed out to women for nothing, and at the expense of men, and thus there is this resentment. But even setting aside provisions that also, I think, benefit men and boys, the fact is that the VAWA took an incredible amount of hard work to get passed. Meaningful legislation of any sort always does. It takes probably thousands of people devoting tens of thousands of hours, most of them as volunteers, calling, e-mailing, tromping the halls of legislators, doing media, raising money--legislative grunt work, all of it. Even with some national organizations in place, it was still a long, uphill battle against all kinds of opposition. And yes, I think it was mostly women, and mostly feminists, who fought this fight.

If you want an entirely separate piece of federal legislation that would do more for males affected by violence, I would say: go for it. Certainly there's a need. For instance, I've long thought that there should be rape crisis services explicitly designed for survivors of rape in prison. (And maybe there are, on various local levels--but there's certainly nothing that I know of on a national level). Now, every rape crisis center with which I've been familiar absolutely talks to men and offers services to men, but I think crisis counseling works best when it's peer to peer support. So, if you want to draft a bill that funds peer counseling services designed specifically for people who have been raped in prison, I say right on brother. The fact that, since the majority of people in prison are men, and that therefore it's statisically likely that the majority of beneficiaries of such services will be men, doesn't bother me in the least.

But it requires work. And maybe somebody is already working on this (and if so I'd appreciate a link). I know there's been a National Commission on the issue (and not one complaint from any feminist that I know of about that fact)--but that, from my understanding, is just a "study" with a bunch of non-binding recommendations. And there's Just Detention International--which does a lot of good work in the US, but again it seems mostly to be trying to call attention to the issue, just as Human Rights Watch might highlight this or that government abuse. Not to denigrate any of that work, but I think much more needs to be done in terms of direct services. But for there to be specific services targeted at a specific issue, people have to step up to the plate.

It's really easy to grouse about this or that piece of legislation if you haven't ever gotten your hands dirty trying to work the system. Without getting into too many personal details, I know a little bit about this. And it's ALWAYS hard work, unless you're a billionaire. Sometimes people even have to die for things to happen. Getting the Civil Rights Restoration Act passed over two vetoes by Reagan took YEARS. Getting the ADA passed took YEARS.

I was hoping, when I came to the Men's Forum, that I'd see more details about specific activism related to issues that affect men. Militarism for instance, or male on male violence, of which prison rape is usually an example. Instead what I've seen, to a great extent, is grousing about how good women have it under "chivalry 2.0." But this ignores entirely the decades of struggle that have led to where we are today. It's as if you think all these changes, changes for the better for many, if not all, women, just dropped out of the sky. Or that they aren't being threatened every single day.

Anyway, I had to get that off my chest. Not that I don't wail and moan about things from time to time, I mean I badmouthed the lack of a public option in the ACA as much as anyone, but I like to think I have an appreciation, in my advanced old age, for how difficult social change is. And so I try to temper my criticism of people actually engaged in the struggle, unless they totally fuck up, in which case all bets are off.

That's it for now. Sorry to give your eyes (or your screen reader) such a workout. And if I've missed a national effort to provide services to survivors of prison rape, I'd hugely appreciate a link. And if you're interested, here's a link to Just Detention.

http://www.justdetention.org/index.aspx

Best wishes.

edited to add: here's another link along the lines of what I've been talking about:

http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prison/prison.html

this same attitude was displayed in the recent hof thread Doctor_J Nov 2013 #1
In any movement there is that group whose worst fear is that... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #2
"In ANY movement..." thucythucy Dec 2013 #13
Yeah, any movement... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #16
Unfortunately the patriarchy is not dead for men Major Nikon Nov 2013 #3
Why call it Patriarchy though? Bonobo Nov 2013 #4
Because people need to understand what it really is Major Nikon Nov 2013 #5
It is the premise underlying the current porn discussions. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #8
I think the actual underlying premise goes a bit deeper Major Nikon Dec 2013 #10
I disagree with the assertion that thucythucy Dec 2013 #14
What better way to protect than through control? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #15
In terms of patriarchy vs. matriarchy thucythucy Dec 2013 #18
As a conceptual frame, it's not all that far off. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #21
Why do you think that all the successful human societies lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #17
I don't know. thucythucy Dec 2013 #19
Until quite recently, men have been largely disposable. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #20
But in that case they're "protected" at the expense of any possible freedom or self-determination. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22
Self-determination has historically been in short supply. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #23
No argument. "Freedom" is always relative - in many cases very, VERY relative. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #24
I'm not sure I understand these distinctions you seem to be making. thucythucy Dec 2013 #25
It's not really about what practical value the patriarchy has anymore Major Nikon Dec 2013 #26
Agreed. The patriarchy, however defined, should be consigned thucythucy Dec 2013 #28
You're right to a point. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #27
Well, we can go round and round on this. thucythucy Dec 2013 #29
Talking with you about this has made me think about terminology. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #30
You're assuming that equality has thucythucy Dec 2013 #31
For every 3 women enrolled in college, 2 men are. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #33
It IS an achievement, considering thucythucy Dec 2013 #35
I did create a progressive men's group to address a variety of issues. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #36
Do you actually read the pages to which you link? thucythucy Dec 2013 #37
Have a Merry Christmas and we'll talk again after the holidays. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #39
Too late to wish you a merry Christmas, (I was away from all computers!!!!) thucythucy Dec 2013 #41
It was wonderful. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #42
Glad to hear it. I also had a wonderful holiday. thucythucy Jan 2014 #43
When women were underrepresented in college is was most certainly a crisis. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #44
Once again you quote a small portion of the link you provide: thucythucy Jan 2014 #45
In 1970, a smaller gap was a huge problem. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #46
I'd have to see the raw figures thucythucy Jan 2014 #47
As a first part of a reading list thucythucy Jan 2014 #48
I've read most of it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #49
It's not hard to find where the bias comes in with AAUW Major Nikon Jan 2014 #50
Even conceding all that, thucythucy Jan 2014 #51
And how much of that is due to illegal discrimination? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #53
agree. nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #54
So you disagree with the raw data thucythucy Jan 2014 #52
The demographic trend of an increasing percentage of young people going to college... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #55
So it's the "splashing sounds" thucythucy Jan 2014 #56
I wanted to add something else. thucythucy Dec 2013 #32
The need for victimization intervention for men is irrelevant. Political will is nonexistent. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #34
The need for intervention and support for male victims is not "irrelevant." thucythucy Dec 2013 #38
The need is irrelevant. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #40
"Dead" seems just a wee bit optimistic at this time LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #6
+1 nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #7
I agree Major Nikon Nov 2013 #9
This part here: thucythucy Dec 2013 #11
I just don't see where she's coming from at all. Seems an incredibly selective view of things. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #12
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Men's Group»Yes, Patriarchy Is Dead; ...»Reply #32