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thucythucy

(8,742 posts)
35. It IS an achievement, considering
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 03:08 PM
Dec 2013

that only a lifetime ago, say seventy-five years or so, the ratio was probably 10 to 1 favoring men, probably more like 100 to 1 in fields like medicine, mathematics, engineering. To see whether men have been substantial losers in this new reality you have to ask: has all else remained the same? That is: has the undergraduate/graduate student body not increased at all in the past 75 years? Are the actual numbers of men going to school, as opposed to the ratio of men to women, gone down substantially? It's like saying: the ratio of black voters in Mississippi compared to white voters has gone from 1 to 10,000 to more like 1 to 1. In fact, we may reach a point in the not too distant future where "minority" voters in places like Mississippi, Texas, South Carolina actually exceed the white voter rolls. Does this mean white people in Mississippi are now losing their right to vote? That there is an organized conspiracy to knock white people off the rolls unjustly? That some form of "reverse racism" ("race chivalry&quot is at work here? Personally, I doubt it.

I read your OP on the ACA, and some of the responses. Most of what I'd have to say was said in a number of the responding posts, which you evidently found not convincing. Why aren't men and men's health issues more prominant in the ACA? Well, why isn't Massachusetts mentioned more often in the Voting Rights Act? This required, among other things, that certain states--such as Texas, South Carolina, Misssissippi--had to clear any changes to their voting laws with the US Justice Dept. So--does this mean people of color have never been discriminated against in Massachusetts? Or simply that the overwhelming problem to be addressed by the law was that there was a history of institutionalized racial discimination in those states that simply wasn't as major an issue in Massachusetts and Oregon? There has been a long and dismal history of women's health issues being ignored or minimized by the health care system and the health insurance industry in this country. So the ACA attempts to address that. Not at all difficult to understand, and bravo to President Obama for recognizing the problems.

Thanks for the links on the various male survivor issues. You don't need to urge me to get involved--I've probably done more work on issues of rape and sexual assault--including male on male rape, female on male rape, female on female rape -- than ninety-nine percent of the people you or I are likely to meet on anything like a day to day basis. I'm not as involved as I used to be, and no doubt could have done more, but I'm quite proud of the work I've done, and think I've helped some folks, including some male survivors whose accounts I still can remember quite vividly.

Again, you seem to feel that male survivor issues aren't being addressed in nearly the same strength as women/girl issues, but miss entirely the point I was making. The reason rape has become a political issue at all has nothing to do with "chivalry"--however vaguely defined. It's because tens of thousands of women in the late 1960s and 1970s decided enough was enough, and began to get active. They formed volunteer rape crisis centers in every major city in the country. They organized forums, demonstrations, they began pushing for legislation. Nothing, NOTHING was handed to them on a silver platter. And to the extent that male issues are discussed at all today, it's almost entirely because of the work done by those pioneering and courageous women (and some few men).

So, why aren't more men involved? And why are you, specifically, waiting for women to do this work for you?

Find out about the laws in your state. Organize your own progressive men's group to stop rape in prison. Contact your lawmakers, start petitions, do some fundraising. If you really care about this issue, DO SOMETHING beyond posting on DU.

It's very easy to blame women for all the world's problems--people have been doing it since the myth of Adam and Eve. It's less easy to get involved, get engaged, not to mention to get exposed to the backlash anyone organizing or advocating for social change is bound to encounter.

People of color, along with some sympathetic whites, pushed until the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were passed. People with disabilities, along with some sympathetic TABs (Temporarily Able Bodied) pushed until the ADA was passed. Women, along with (a very very few men) pushed until rape crisis centers were established and the VAWA was passed.

If male rape, specifically prison rape, is your issue, what are you waiting for?

this same attitude was displayed in the recent hof thread Doctor_J Nov 2013 #1
In any movement there is that group whose worst fear is that... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #2
"In ANY movement..." thucythucy Dec 2013 #13
Yeah, any movement... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #16
Unfortunately the patriarchy is not dead for men Major Nikon Nov 2013 #3
Why call it Patriarchy though? Bonobo Nov 2013 #4
Because people need to understand what it really is Major Nikon Nov 2013 #5
It is the premise underlying the current porn discussions. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #8
I think the actual underlying premise goes a bit deeper Major Nikon Dec 2013 #10
I disagree with the assertion that thucythucy Dec 2013 #14
What better way to protect than through control? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #15
In terms of patriarchy vs. matriarchy thucythucy Dec 2013 #18
As a conceptual frame, it's not all that far off. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #21
Why do you think that all the successful human societies lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #17
I don't know. thucythucy Dec 2013 #19
Until quite recently, men have been largely disposable. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #20
But in that case they're "protected" at the expense of any possible freedom or self-determination. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22
Self-determination has historically been in short supply. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #23
No argument. "Freedom" is always relative - in many cases very, VERY relative. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #24
I'm not sure I understand these distinctions you seem to be making. thucythucy Dec 2013 #25
It's not really about what practical value the patriarchy has anymore Major Nikon Dec 2013 #26
Agreed. The patriarchy, however defined, should be consigned thucythucy Dec 2013 #28
You're right to a point. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #27
Well, we can go round and round on this. thucythucy Dec 2013 #29
Talking with you about this has made me think about terminology. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #30
You're assuming that equality has thucythucy Dec 2013 #31
For every 3 women enrolled in college, 2 men are. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #33
It IS an achievement, considering thucythucy Dec 2013 #35
I did create a progressive men's group to address a variety of issues. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #36
Do you actually read the pages to which you link? thucythucy Dec 2013 #37
Have a Merry Christmas and we'll talk again after the holidays. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #39
Too late to wish you a merry Christmas, (I was away from all computers!!!!) thucythucy Dec 2013 #41
It was wonderful. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #42
Glad to hear it. I also had a wonderful holiday. thucythucy Jan 2014 #43
When women were underrepresented in college is was most certainly a crisis. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #44
Once again you quote a small portion of the link you provide: thucythucy Jan 2014 #45
In 1970, a smaller gap was a huge problem. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #46
I'd have to see the raw figures thucythucy Jan 2014 #47
As a first part of a reading list thucythucy Jan 2014 #48
I've read most of it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #49
It's not hard to find where the bias comes in with AAUW Major Nikon Jan 2014 #50
Even conceding all that, thucythucy Jan 2014 #51
And how much of that is due to illegal discrimination? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #53
agree. nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #54
So you disagree with the raw data thucythucy Jan 2014 #52
The demographic trend of an increasing percentage of young people going to college... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #55
So it's the "splashing sounds" thucythucy Jan 2014 #56
I wanted to add something else. thucythucy Dec 2013 #32
The need for victimization intervention for men is irrelevant. Political will is nonexistent. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #34
The need for intervention and support for male victims is not "irrelevant." thucythucy Dec 2013 #38
The need is irrelevant. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #40
"Dead" seems just a wee bit optimistic at this time LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #6
+1 nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #7
I agree Major Nikon Nov 2013 #9
This part here: thucythucy Dec 2013 #11
I just don't see where she's coming from at all. Seems an incredibly selective view of things. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #12
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Men's Group»Yes, Patriarchy Is Dead; ...»Reply #35