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NNadir

(34,991 posts)
14. Um, the Journal of Hydrogen Energy has been in continuous print since 1976, almost half a century.
Sun Dec 10, 2023, 09:03 PM
Dec 2023

I have been reading some papers in The Journal of Hydrogen Energy for decades, not because I'm attached to dumb ideas like hydrogen cars or hydrogen lawn mowers or hydrogen powered food processors, but because I am interested in hydrogen thermochemical cycles and, thermodynamics, as well as important tasks in chemical engineering for which captive hydrogen is a useful intermediate.

If one looks, one can see that all of the problems with this putative "infrastructure" have been understood for decades.

The very first of these is that the critical temperature of methane, from which hydrogen is mostly made, is 191 Kelvin, that of hydrogen is 33 Kelvin. What part of a difference of 158 kelvin in temperature is difficult to understand?

Moreover, liquid methane has a higher viscosity than hydrogen, and methane does not diffuse into metals and cause embrittlement.

These are facts. They will not be changed by advertising, wishful thinking, day dreams, or cheap marketing.

One can ignore reality because one is engaged in wishful thinking or one can face reality. If one does the former, one isn't involved in helping but is, in fact, promoting the lie that is killing the planet.

The hydrogen scam is, to repeat, a crime against humanity where one is proposing it as a consumer product as an energy carrier. It's dangerous, misleading, expensive and it's a front for the fossil fuel industry.

If one makes a prediction based on scientific principles, the principles are shown to be wrong if and only if experiment disagrees. Maybe there are people who don't read very much or know very much who have not familiarized themselves with the results of literally millions of experiments involving hydrogen and, indeed, industrial processes, but it's not like it's some kind of deep unknown mystery.

Now of course, there are people who actively engage in denial of these well known and well understood facts. I would certainly include the fossil fuel sales person here rebranding fossil fuels as hydrogen and its slightly amusing "I agree with you" sales bot here for which a human sometimes logs on to place doubts around the obviously failed Turing tests.

I would note that if one predicts that if one predicts that methane will liquefy at a temperature of 191 Kelvin at a pressure greater than 4.6 MPa, one is not engaged in soothsaying, since one's understanding of physical laws can lead to prediction as opposed to mystical magical thinking. Methane is liquified, at a lower energy cost than can be achieved for hydrogen, every damned day on this planet, and no soothsaying is involved. Engineers doing so because the experiment is repeated industrially regularly and never fails.


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Kickin' Faux pas Jul 2023 #1
Hydrogen is made from ANY source of energy... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #2
Your title is a lie, according to Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm Caribbeans Jul 2023 #3
No, my title is a true statement with references to the primary scientific literature, numbers... NNadir Jul 2023 #4
Not exactly... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #5
Present day production is not the same as 2050 production Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #9
The confusion of soothsaying with reality is why we're in this horrible mess. NNadir Dec 2023 #10
Because of issues like which infrastructure and consumer preferences, Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #11
It is obscene to make hydrogen for fuel purposes when fossil fuels dominate the energy supply. NNadir Dec 2023 #12
If we don't start finding out now what infrastructure works Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #13
Um, the Journal of Hydrogen Energy has been in continuous print since 1976, almost half a century. NNadir Dec 2023 #14
Yes, one can see problems, but nobody knows what choices will be chosen Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #15
It's a very poor analogy that stuff about Meta etc. NNadir Dec 2023 #16
You are very wrong to twist my words Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #17
Oh please... NNadir Dec 2023 #18
Nice strawman you got there. Nobody called you a communist Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2023 #19
Updated to include link to the first referenced paper, and to make a minor cosmetic change. NNadir Jul 2023 #6
The intent of this post is to mislead... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #7
Another pretty chart... Think. Again. Jul 2023 #8
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