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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
13. Agreed that there are some people like those you describe in the second paragraph.
Tue May 10, 2016, 12:46 PM
May 2016

And that those people are vile bigots.

At the same time, I think it needs to be acknowledged that a fair amount people in North America, Europe, and the UK who currently identify as "anti-Zionist" would probably not take that position if it hadn't been for the fact that, prior to 1994, any criticism of and even the mildest public disagreement with anything the Israeli government did to Palestinians was uniformly anathemized as being "antisemitic". The only position most people who identified as "Zionist" would accept in that period was unquestioning support and defense of every single part of Israeli "security" policy. In hindsight, would you at least agree that it should have been possible to question the Occupation and the settlement project and to support negotiations towards a two-state model(something that was the only possible way to end the conflict) from at least the early 70's? That taking positions like that should never have been equated to hatred of Jews?

I'm not sure exactly what I would be considered in the spectrum between Zionist and anti-Zionist.

I support Israel's right to exist in peace and security on the pre-1967 lines, with a Palestinian state being allowed to live in equal peace and security right next to it. I'd like to see as many of the settlements removed as possible, with negotiations to follow about allowing those descended from the indigenous Jewish inhabitants who were forced out by Jordan in 1948(something that should never have happened, since few if any of those people were responsible for any of the dispossessions that happened to Palestinians in that period) and an equal agreement to let Palestinians who lived in what is now Israel before 1948(and possibly some of their children, though not grandchildren or anyone beyond that) with those Palestinians who aren't allowed back being given some sort of "overseas department" representation in Palestine and/or Israel(or possibly some sort of federal legislature that represents both nationalities on the Belgian model), and with those Palestinians(and any descendants of pre-1948 West Bank Jewish communities)being given not only compensation but apologies and an acknowledgment of their connection to the lands they aren't allowed to return to physically.

And I'd make this contingent on an agreement from everyone not to try to upset the newly established order in either country.

This is all intended in the sincere spirit of peace and goodwill.

To end the conflict, I think, as many wounds on both sides as possible will have to be healed. "Suck it up and get over it" isn't going to cut it.

Great piece leftynyc May 2016 #1
A reasonable request. n/t Little Tich May 2016 #2
Back to the good old days of Jews pleading 6chars May 2016 #3
Yep King_David May 2016 #4
The left(many of whose members)do treat Jewish people like any other minority. Ken Burch May 2016 #5
Ken, the reactionary anti-Imperialist Left hates Jews...believes Hamas is progressive. shira May 2016 #7
Not so. There are SOME who do; but anti-imperialist far-leftist do not automatically hate Jews. LeftishBrit May 2016 #16
What percentage do you think are Corbynites, Galloways, Livingstones....? shira May 2016 #17
That's definitely not true oberliner May 2016 #8
What about "I'm talking about Zionism", as opposed to "Zionists"? Ken Burch May 2016 #9
Here's my take oberliner May 2016 #10
Agreed that there are some people like those you describe in the second paragraph. Ken Burch May 2016 #13
Fair points oberliner May 2016 #15
I suppose it is derived from Geneva. Ken Burch May 2016 #18
AntiZionists dream is the good old days where there was no protection of Jews King_David May 2016 #11
Well, I'm not an antizionist and that isn't MY dream. Ken Burch May 2016 #12
Interesting correction at the bottom of the article: Ken Burch May 2016 #6
Check out the end of this OP.... shira May 2016 #14
But Jews aren't like other minorities, so there are three reasons why it won't ever happen. aranthus May 2016 #19
Great post. n/t shira May 2016 #20
spectacular analysis, +1000 ericson00 May 2016 #21
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»My plea to the left: trea...»Reply #13