Israel/Palestine

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)

59. No, I don't.

Sun Sep 18, 2016, 07:15 PM

Sep 2016

Last edited Sun Sep 18, 2016, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I believe the physical reality on the ground could be easily mitigated if we saw a shift in the political climate; which I predict no forseeable change in for the next few decades. Israel has no interest in land that has Palestinians on it, and the staus quo of endless occupation can't continue forever, which leaves the only real option one of Palestinian independence. Because of this the movement to grant Palestinians an independent state that can live at peace with Israel has always been very popular in Israel.

The Palestinians messed this up horribly with Gaza. Israel has less interest in a free Palestine than in a safe neighbor, whether they are being oppressed or not. Without a sea change in Palestinian ideology you're not going to see a possibility for Palestinian independence that doesn't involve a heavy Israeli military intervention.

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59 replies

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Highlight:

Stop With the Nonsense That Palestinians Are a Minority in Israel [View all] Little Tich Aug 2016 OP

From Gideon Levy, author of: "Israel is an Evil State" oberliner Aug 2016 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars Aug 2016 #2

Gaza is under Israeli occupation - the wellbeing of the people there is Israel's responsibility as Little Tich Aug 2016 #5

Israel withdrew from every square inch of the Gaza strip in 2005. oberliner Aug 2016 #8

Israel is still the Occupying Power according to the Geneva Convention, sorry... n/t Little Tich Aug 2016 #14

They're not occupying Gaza according to any definition of a military occupation. n/t shira Aug 2016 #21

The UN, international law and the international community considers Gaza to be under Israeli occupat Little Tich Aug 2016 #26

Purely political. Has nothing to do with actual International law, definitions... shira Aug 2016 #28

Before 2005, there were settlements in Gaza as well as a significant Israeli military presence. oberliner Aug 2016 #22

I'm not sure there's any difference whatsoever, at least legally. Little Tich Aug 2016 #25

Does it? Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #40

Israel has full control of all border crossings, Little Tich Sep 2016 #45

What about the crossings controlled by Egypt? Nt hack89 Sep 2016 #46

I don't think that's right. Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #47

You seem to be unaware of the existence of the "Agreement on Movement and Access" from 2005 between Little Tich Sep 2016 #50

No, I'm aware of it. Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #52

It effectively controls everything about Gaza. Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2016 #34

Really? Israel controls Hamas' government, schools, media, police, military? shira Aug 2016 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars Aug 2016 #37

Perhaps Israel is an evil state - at least when it comes to the treatment of Palestinians? Little Tich Aug 2016 #6

Is that your opinion? oberliner Aug 2016 #7

The purpose of Israel's treatment of Palestininans is to benefit Jewish Israelis at the expense of Little Tich Aug 2016 #9

Israel's occupation has nothing to do with security, terror? shira Aug 2016 #10

There's no way out of the occupation. Little Tich Aug 2016 #13

Wait - are you saying it's impossible for Israel to end the occupation? shira Aug 2016 #15

It doesn't seem as if Israel wants two states - Little Tich Aug 2016 #16

You don't seem to want the occupation to end. It CANNOT end in your opinion.... shira Aug 2016 #17

Because the goal of BDS is two states, or at least better conditions for the Palestinians under Little Tich Aug 2016 #18

Show me where BDS' goal is 2 states. It's certainly not a Jewish one next to a Palestinian state... shira Aug 2016 #19

It's my firm belief that a viable Palestinian is impossible without the complete removal of all the Little Tich Aug 2016 #24

Your belief is more rigid/extreme than the PA. You don't want 2 states.... shira Aug 2016 #27

We seem to agree on one thing though - the settlements won't be removed... Little Tich Aug 2016 #29

Why do you support BDS when it says it's against an occupation you believe.... shira Aug 2016 #30

I disagree with your assertion that BDS has a goal that's connected to either the one or two state Little Tich Aug 2016 #32

So why did you state in #18 that the BDS goal is 2 states when that's false? shira Aug 2016 #33

The goal of BDS is primarily to promote Palestinian rights by opposing Apartheid and the occupation. Little Tich Aug 2016 #36

Omar Barghouti says the 3 tier plan means 1 Palestinian state next to another Palestinian state.... shira Aug 2016 #38

That's just BS, considering BDS support of Right-of-Return, which is 100% antisemitism. shira Sep 2016 #39

Thanks for sharing your response oberliner Aug 2016 #11

I've actually been to Israel a few times - it's a nice country... Little Tich Aug 2016 #12

My position is that there is no such thing as an "evil" country oberliner Aug 2016 #20

I think you're splitting hairs - a state deliberately causing harm to people is evil regardless Little Tich Aug 2016 #23

So what happens after this "evil" ends & BDS succeeds? shira Aug 2016 #31

LOL .... Israeli Sep 2016 #42

That's not true at all though. Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #41

I don't know of a single instance where Palestinians have been treated equally to Israelis Little Tich Sep 2016 #44

Really? Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #48

I was referring to the Palestinians under occupation in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza. Little Tich Sep 2016 #49

Ooohhhh, ok. Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #51

So you can't find a single example where the Palestinians in the occupied territories haven't been Little Tich Sep 2016 #53

Sure, there are plenty of singular examples... Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #54

You seem to unaware of the harsh economic conditions for the Palestinian population in the West Bank Little Tich Sep 2016 #55

No, I'm aware. Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #56

I'm not going to quibble with you on different interpretations of details. Little Tich Sep 2016 #57

May be wrong to include Gaza but.... kayecy Sep 2016 #58

No, I don't. Shaktimaan Sep 2016 #59

Levy's an asshole leftynyc Aug 2016 #3

+1 King_David Aug 2016 #4

Hey ... Israeli Sep 2016 #43