Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Creative Speculation
In reply to the discussion: North Tower Acceleration [View all]William Seger
(11,049 posts)205. WTF?
It's really annoying to try to interact with someone who either doesn't even read what I write or utterly fails to understand it but then calls it "blather." I explained EXACTLY what Ross' "momentum losses" number was and how he calculated it in post #163, when you first decided to share your ignorance with us, and I'll bold the most relevant part so you can't miss it again:
The major item in Ross' "energy summary" loss column is "Momentum losses 1389 MJ". He got that number from these two calculations:
If we assume that the upper section comprising 16 storeys falls under a full gravitational acceleration through a height of one (removed) storey, a distance of 3.7 metres we can calculate that its velocity upon impact will be 8.52 metres per second and have a kinetic energy due to its mass and velocity of 2.105 GJ. (Using the figure of 58000 tonnes as detailed in the report by Bazant & Zhou.)
...
K. E. of falling sectionfiltered= 16 floors moving at (8.5 m/sec)
K. E. of falling sectionfiltered= 17 floors moving at (4.8 m/sec)
Percentage loss of K.E. = 1-(17 * 4.8/ (16 *8.5) * 100% = 66%
What Ross is doing in that last line is calculating the kinetic energy present in the masses and velocities before and after the collision, showing a loss of 66% of the kinetic energy due to the inelastic collision. So 66% of 2.105 GJ is 1389 MJ, which Ross takes as "momentum losses."
If you do not understand that simple, clear explanation of Ross' "momentum losses" then you should have bowed out of the discussion many, many posts ago. How could you possibly think that anyone would be interested in your opinions about an issue which you simply do not understand? Have you really deluded yourself into thinking nobody else understands it either, so you can just spew nonsense?
You owe me ten bucks, and I'll thank you to contribute it to DU. That would be a cheap lesson, but I have to doubt that you've really learned anything from it.
EDIT: I'll bet you another $10, also payable to DU, that you cannot find a single "inconsistency" in what I've said on this subject that isn't also a product of your own lack of understanding.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
207 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Good video! It's certain to generate snark and slander and not much else by way of rebuttal. K&R (nt
T S Justly
Dec 2011
#19
Thanks, I think. Lol. But the video still trumps nonsensical Bush Era "science". (nt)
T S Justly
Dec 2011
#30
Lol, but yes. The videos have laid waste to Bush and his doctrinaires' output. (nt)
T S Justly
Dec 2011
#32
Rather, it is I who supports Chandler's video evidence of NIST/Commission fraud ...
T S Justly
Dec 2011
#35
Most of what we know about 9/11 didn't come from the "Bush administration"
William Seger
Dec 2011
#36
Most of what we know about 9/11 didn't come from the "Bush administration" - Lol, that is true. (nt)
T S Justly
Dec 2011
#37
"The lower block only slowed down the acceleration of the upper block's mass....
jesters
Jan 2012
#43
"Bazant's cartoon model which has largely been discarded by both sides of the debate now"
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#44
I don't see the problem with you providing a properly labelled free body diagram
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#54
"Bazant Zhou shows that the upper section would have had ~31 times the energy necessary
jesters
Jan 2012
#59
Yup, that's a clue. The section "Elastic Dynamic Analysis" is a little less obvious, but...
William Seger
Jan 2012
#89
"shown to be wrong by numerous independent analyses, on both sides of the debate."
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#74
Please provide the proof of physical and mathematical impossibility of 30% resistance.
AZCat
Jan 2012
#79
"The calculations have been done by many others." Which you continue to omit to link to.
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#85
Fortunately the lower section can absorb the energy. A miracle of highrise engineering.
jesters
Jan 2012
#92
No, but I have noticed so-called "truthers" assert amazing things without evidence
zappaman
Jan 2012
#102
"The lower structure can absorb the energy. That's what I've been saying for the last 18 posts."
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#95
Hmm. No links, no properly labeled free body diagram. Goodbye, jesters. n/t
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#99
"don't be presenting the Bazant model as if it doesn't have fatal flaws" Links, please.
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#148
after further review, Greening is NOT distinguishing between fracturing and pulverization
OnTheOtherHand
Jan 2012
#181
Not momentum loss; "momentum losses," Ross' term for the kinetic energy lost
William Seger
Jan 2012
#201
You are member of a tiny internet fringe group - lets not forget that simple fact
hack89
Jan 2012
#135
"intact 80 - 90-storey steel framed highrise" - just popping in to point out
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#128
What I've noticed is that post #5 is still sitting there, unanswered. (n/t)
William Seger
Jan 2012
#83
A physics "gotcha"? No, you'd have to hand that to the guy who figured it out in the first place.
AZCat
Jan 2012
#125
You didn't respond to my questioning of your statement contradicting the second law.
AZCat
Jan 2012
#133
It doesn't matter if the bodies are moving or not, the second law still applies.
AZCat
Jan 2012
#137
You're assuming the buildings had a normal ability to withstand forces after collapse initiations
cpwm17
Jan 2012
#63