Religion

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)

123. We're certainly getting there.

Fri May 25, 2018, 07:13 AM

May 2018

Belief and knowledge are not the same thing, and belief is a binary proposition. You either believe or you do not.

Look, part of my frustration with this issue is the lack of context from the "agnostic" position. This isn't just about what you personally prefer to be called. It's also about social pressure to identify one's self as literally anything but atheist, those who bow to that pressure, and the disservice they do to those who do not. You can dress this up however you want, but at the end of the day you're explicitly giving creedence to the notion that "agnostic" is a more moderate and therefore more palatable term than "atheist". What do you think that implies for people who call themselves atheist?

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School Shootings - More Evidence of a Non-Existent Deity? [View all] MineralMan May 2018 OP

Not necessarily evidence of non-existence, but certainly evidence The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #1

Well, since I'm an atheist, I think it's evidence of non-existence, MineralMan May 2018 #2

Dude. Tipperary May 2018 #46

Thanks for pointing that out. I've corrected the error. MineralMan May 2018 #61

Can you describe the difference between a universe where no gods exist... trotsky May 2018 #3

It's a position held by deist philosophers - Newton and Descartes, for example. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #4

Yes, thank you so very much for that. But it doesn't answer my question. trotsky May 2018 #5

I can't answer it, and prefer not to try. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #11

So you don't believe in gods. That's cool. trotsky May 2018 #12

Because I don't know. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #13

I don't either. trotsky May 2018 #14

I don't know. From what I've read, some do. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #15

Fascinating. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #28

I really don't care about how other people perceive me. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #41

I'll bet. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #56

Was that an insult? Am I supposed to care? The Velveteen Ocelot May 2018 #57

Why would you think it is an insult? Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #60

I am an agnostic too, and it's easy to explain marylandblue May 2018 #49

We're *all* agnostic. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #55

Then why call yourself atheist? marylandblue May 2018 #62

The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Mariana May 2018 #64

If I don't believe something is true, then I say it isn't true marylandblue May 2018 #87

For me, it's because I don't believe in gods. trotsky May 2018 #65

I don't have a special category marylandblue May 2018 #85

Very few atheists I've ever met claim to "know for sure." trotsky May 2018 #90

Because the two are not mutually-exclusive terms... Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #69

Some people seem pretty sure, one way or the other marylandblue May 2018 #83

I said I don't believe in gods. trotsky May 2018 #92

I don't know the answer therefore I am agnostic. It's not about belief. marylandblue May 2018 #93

Technically, leprechauns *could* exist. You don't *know* they don't. trotsky May 2018 #109

Technically, you could be a figment of my imagination marylandblue May 2018 #114

I'm also uncertain. trotsky May 2018 #117

Well usually leprechauns are tiny humanoid magic creatures dressed in green marylandblue May 2018 #122

"usually" trotsky May 2018 #124

Yes it does depend on definitions marylandblue May 2018 #126

According to #65, Trotsky doesn't believe in gods. Mariana May 2018 #95

What definition of belief are you using? marylandblue May 2018 #96

Yes. I don't think any gods exist. Mariana May 2018 #100

I'd say the probability of finding the Loch Ness Monster etc. is zero marylandblue May 2018 #101

Folks thought the probablility of finding a live coelacanth was zero. Mariana May 2018 #104

yes, I was thinking of that example as well marylandblue May 2018 #105

"Seem pretty sure" Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #107

I can't read their minds, but marylandblue May 2018 #115

You keep confusing these terms. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #118

This is not about theoretical uncertainty marylandblue May 2018 #119

No, it's about the misapplication of a term. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #120

You have not been down this road 1,000 times with me marylandblue May 2018 #121

We're certainly getting there. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #123

I don't believe belief is a binary proposition marylandblue May 2018 #125

Confidence is a spectrum. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #127

You are splitting hairs marylandblue May 2018 #130

No, I'm not. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #135

I won't tell you what you believe marylandblue May 2018 #136

I'm not telling you what you believe. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #137

Definition of Agnostic from Merriam Webster marylandblue May 2018 #138

The operative word being "broadly" Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #140

I really don't care how believers sort non-believers marylandblue May 2018 #141

Spare us your sanctimony. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #142

Spare us your own sanctimony marylandblue May 2018 #143

Having a fever is a binary proposition Pope George Ringo II May 2018 #128

Temperature is a spectrum marylandblue May 2018 #129

There's nothing arbitrary about it. Pope George Ringo II May 2018 #131

Like I said, if you see this in black and white, you are not going to understand me marylandblue May 2018 #132

Well, if you're that sincerely committed to it, I'll concede the point. Pope George Ringo II May 2018 #133

Climate change? Moostache May 2018 #86

I don't believe in God as described in the Bible or the Quran marylandblue May 2018 #88

Fair enough... Moostache May 2018 #91

Clearly, there are no such differences. MineralMan May 2018 #6

Purpose of prayer zipplewrath May 2018 #8

Same...but different...but still same Docreed2003 May 2018 #26

Yes, I can. guillaumeb May 2018 #31

So how is your world, where your gods exist Voltaire2 May 2018 #35

An ontological difference. guillaumeb May 2018 #36

And once again a non-answer. Voltaire2 May 2018 #37

I answered your initial question. guillaumeb May 2018 #38

For the second, you have made several unsupported statements. trotsky May 2018 #66

You asked for an opinion. guillaumeb May 2018 #94

So no answers. trotsky May 2018 #110

Ugh....my joke is a drop of poop now Docreed2003 May 2018 #50

It is quite impossible to prove something doesn't exist. bitterross May 2018 #52

Different concepts of Dieties zipplewrath May 2018 #7

OK. I conceive that no deities at all exist. MineralMan May 2018 #9

Yup zipplewrath May 2018 #10

"There isn't supposed to be evidence." Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #16

evidence would make faith worthless Fullduplexxx May 2018 #18

Which also sounds like a post hoc rationalization. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #20

And sometimes a cigar is a cigar Fullduplexxx May 2018 #25

Which was definitely was a post hoc rationalization. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #27

Not to mention it being a worn-out, trite cliche. MineralMan May 2018 #32

Apocryphal but still true dont you think Fullduplexxx May 2018 #33

If we're talking about cigars, perhaps. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #58

So far as i remember faith has been a cornerstone in the religion Fullduplexxx May 2018 #63

Pretty good memory. Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #68

Oh that was hilarious Fullduplexxx May 2018 #70

Thanks! Act_of_Reparation May 2018 #108

Which religion? nt. Mariana May 2018 #72

I was speaking of the catholic religion of which i am no longer a part of Fullduplexxx May 2018 #73

That church was supposedly started by people Mariana May 2018 #106

That's an interesting idea, that evidence makes faith worthless. Mariana May 2018 #39

Only modern faith. Voltaire2 May 2018 #43

I believe so . They no longer believe, they know Fullduplexxx May 2018 #44

I think I worded that question badly. I apologize. Mariana May 2018 #45

Idk Perhaps because faith is chosen Fullduplexxx May 2018 #47

You think? Mariana May 2018 #48

Your assumption that "the supposed deity was either absent or doesn't exist in the first place." Fullduplexxx May 2018 #17

It is not my assumption. That is your assumption of MineralMan May 2018 #19

Im sorry these are not you words? Fullduplexxx May 2018 #22

Those are me[sic] words, yes. MineralMan May 2018 #24

Call it what you will and insults over typos aside Fullduplexxx May 2018 #29

I will call it what it is, and it wasn't just typos. MineralMan May 2018 #30

That 3rd option is more horrific than anything else. trotsky May 2018 #74

They were victims of his free will or his mental illness . Fullduplexxx May 2018 #77

He? You're positing that such a deity exists. MineralMan May 2018 #79

Yea i shouldnt have used he Fullduplexxx May 2018 #81

Holy shit that's even scarier. trotsky May 2018 #82

It may be to atheists but i believe we all go back to god Fullduplexxx May 2018 #84

Even if I still believed in a god... trotsky May 2018 #89

the all powerful god allowed these killings to happen. perhaps even planned them. nt msongs May 2018 #21

I don't believe there is any such entity, so no. MineralMan May 2018 #23

It has been stated here that 77% of Americans Voltaire2 May 2018 #34

Beliefs are selective. MineralMan May 2018 #40

God protected all the people who didn't get shot. Mariana May 2018 #42

We will find a reason we are comfortable with and project it on our respective deities. StTimofEdenRoc May 2018 #51

People pray to the same good that let it all happen Lordquinton May 2018 #53

No God Or False Gods? Westcoast52 May 2018 #54

Please define the word "god" as you're using it here. Mariana May 2018 #67

Uh, hello? rownesheck May 2018 #59

Whether it counts as "more" evidence is sort of borderline. Jim Lane May 2018 #71

Each incident is more evidence. Evidence is additive. MineralMan May 2018 #75

Ah, the "if there is a God" lament? saidsimplesimon May 2018 #76

The santa claus god Fullduplexxx May 2018 #78

Who is santa? lol saidsimplesimon May 2018 #80

In a multiverse all possible worlds exist. Voltaire2 May 2018 #98

Evidence of a violence obsessed society, guillaumeb May 2018 #97

"Man Is The Measure Of All Things" Westcoast52 May 2018 #99

There you go. Poking the bear. WhiteTara May 2018 #102

Moloch Buzz cook May 2018 #103

Interesting thread. I'm late as hell but ecstatic May 2018 #111

So you are claiming that there is some grand purpose that justifies Voltaire2 May 2018 #112

Well, we're not doing so well now, either. MineralMan May 2018 #113

This would not be consistent with God as usually defined marylandblue May 2018 #116

Hi marylandblue - you bring up an important (and thought-provoking point). Pendrench May 2018 #134

Thanks for your interesting take on this marylandblue May 2018 #139

You are very welcome - thank you again for your post! Pendrench May 2018 #144

Yes I live in Maryland, near DC marylandblue May 2018 #145

Glad to hear that you are OK. Pendrench Jun 2018 #146

From 2012, just after the Sandy Hook massacre. old as dirt Dec 2021 #147

"Let the little children come to me", Jesus said. old as dirt Dec 2021 #148