Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

93. And many have pointed to other nations as examples

Fri Dec 28, 2018, 07:33 PM

Dec 2018

of progressive secularism.

But often these examples of progressive secular countries can pass some very Islamophobic legislation. So there are limits to tolerance.

My point, often repeated, is that neither theism nor atheism leads inevitably to intolerance.

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As far as I know, none of us here live in China. [View all] MineralMan Dec 2018 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #1

I never call anyone a troll. Usually it just turns out MineralMan Dec 2018 #3

This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #5

No need for apologies. MineralMan Dec 2018 #6

yet several folks on this forum qazplm135 Dec 2018 #2

I do not recall any instances of that. MineralMan Dec 2018 #4

No I don't routinely link or save posts of other posters qazplm135 Dec 2018 #7

I see. Just as I thought. MineralMan Dec 2018 #10

just as you thought what? qazplm135 Dec 2018 #11

That you have no evidence of what you stated. MineralMan Dec 2018 #14

so there are two options qazplm135 Dec 2018 #29

No. There's a third option. MineralMan Dec 2018 #30

you're ridiculous qazplm135 Dec 2018 #42

I see. Well, thanks for letting me know your opinion of me. MineralMan Dec 2018 #43

I'm an atheist and I haven't seen a post like that. sfwriter Dec 2018 #105

It is a sexist thing to say. nt. Mariana Dec 2018 #32

The testicles thing? I agree. MineralMan Dec 2018 #37

Testicles? Really? Mariana Dec 2018 #31

oh please qazplm135 Dec 2018 #44

So, you're not part of the left half of the political spectrum? MineralMan Dec 2018 #46

not remotely what I said qazplm135 Dec 2018 #48

"Why the left can't gain traction" The left is doing quite well, thank you. Where are you on the Nitram Dec 2018 #55

No, democrats are doing fairly well qazplm135 Dec 2018 #56

That wasn't why it was said that what you said was sexist. MineralMan Dec 2018 #59

it's a euphemism qazplm135 Dec 2018 #62

It's a sexist euphemism when used that way. MineralMan Dec 2018 #63

Honestly, at this point, I'm surprised I wasn't called hysterical. Mariana Dec 2018 #69

Yes. It's difficult for me to understand why some people MineralMan Dec 2018 #110

I'm pretty sure the poster understands he used sexist language. nt. Mariana Dec 2018 #116

Yes. So I believe, as well. MineralMan Dec 2018 #117

A good question. I asked him that, too. MineralMan Dec 2018 #57

I haven't seen it either Major Nikon Dec 2018 #16

Yeah. I'd need to see a link, I think. MineralMan Dec 2018 #17

I never had any testicles to begin with Mariana Dec 2018 #33

That's what I assumed from your name. MineralMan Dec 2018 #40

Oddly enough we all do have gonads. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #113

Indeed we do. MineralMan Dec 2018 #115

I also don't recall here looking to China as a positive example of the lack of religion. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2018 #77

And many have pointed to other nations as examples guillaumeb Dec 2018 #93

Which theocracy was not intolerant? Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #108

Which society is not intolerant? guillaumeb Dec 2018 #119

There are many tolerant societies. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #121

Yes. For example, in law, the United States is a very tolerant society. MineralMan Dec 2018 #122

Is China's political system bad? dvduval Dec 2018 #8

I have no direct experience with the Chinese political system. MineralMan Dec 2018 #9

I speak Chinese dvduval Dec 2018 #12

OK. I work closely with a man who fled China after MineralMan Dec 2018 #15

So, you're a supporter of the Chinese political system? MineralMan Dec 2018 #18

I'm more apathetic towards it Major Nikon Dec 2018 #21

My question was to the other participant in the thread, MineralMan Dec 2018 #24

There are good parts and bad parts dvduval Dec 2018 #34

Nor did I state that is was good or bad. MineralMan Dec 2018 #38

I've been to four cities in China Major Nikon Dec 2018 #20

I work with colleagues in China. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #51

You have to understand some here are desperately searching for false equivalences Major Nikon Dec 2018 #19

Really? dvduval Dec 2018 #36

"I think it could be said that people who call themselves atheists are not all the same." MineralMan Dec 2018 #50

Atheology isn't a thing Major Nikon Dec 2018 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author dvduval Dec 2018 #13

It is always interesting to see people here, who are progressives edhopper Dec 2018 #22

I think it's really more whataboutism than anything else. MineralMan Dec 2018 #25

I don't know any progressives who equate atheism and communism. All communists are atheists, but Nitram Dec 2018 #71

The poster of the other China thread edhopper Dec 2018 #75

He must be an evangelical or something like that. They tend to simplify things a great deal. Nitram Dec 2018 #76

We have not been able to discern what he believes edhopper Dec 2018 #78

That's what I was gonna say, atheism / communism Lordquinton Dec 2018 #89

My experience Cartoonist Dec 2018 #23

As an atheist and a human rights advocate, MineralMan Dec 2018 #27

They can dvduval Dec 2018 #39

Again, this thread isn't really about China. MineralMan Dec 2018 #41

Their preconceived notion dvduval Dec 2018 #49

Interesting post. PatrickforO Dec 2018 #26

It's no effort at all to be an atheist. MineralMan Dec 2018 #28

"...it's a heck of a lot of work to be an atheist." Mariana Dec 2018 #35

I will speak to mine. violetpastille Dec 2018 #60

So, you're firm in your belief. MineralMan Dec 2018 #61

It's probably hardware. violetpastille Dec 2018 #104

People are openly critical of the CCP. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #109

Soft Totalitarianism violetpastille Dec 2018 #114

Thank you for your answer. Mariana Dec 2018 #65

No but violetpastille Dec 2018 #70

If you believed those were the only choices, you'd still be a theist. Mariana Dec 2018 #83

You're right. violetpastille Dec 2018 #85

I personally find it effortless The Genealogist Dec 2018 #52

Me too. violetpastille Dec 2018 #53

Sounds like philosophy of non-duality, aka Advaita. c-rational Dec 2018 #81

Wow. I didn't realize my little contribution would cause such a stir. PatrickforO Dec 2018 #82

That was me. violetpastille Dec 2018 #86

Oh. Yeah, I hear that. I do not discuss my beliefs at all, pretty much. PatrickforO Dec 2018 #92

I've been to China. Fascinating country Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #45

I'm sure that's true. It's one of the oldest continuous MineralMan Dec 2018 #47

They even survived edhopper Dec 2018 #72

LOL! MineralMan Dec 2018 #73

When did you go last? And where did you go? violetpastille Dec 2018 #54

Two years ago and I was mostly in Nanjing. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #95

Just inquisitive. violetpastille Dec 2018 #101

dont underestimate China AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #64

Where did I do that? This thread is not actually about China. MineralMan Dec 2018 #66

it implies that china's atheism is somehow bad AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #67

No. My post does not imply that at all. MineralMan Dec 2018 #68

I thought you were just pointing out that some people who are against atheism equate it with the Nitram Dec 2018 #74

Some do edhopper Dec 2018 #79

and I was trying to point out that chinese atheists AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #84

"China may very well become the world's largest democracy." A very naive view. Nitram Dec 2018 #99

Even Soviet Union eventually fell apart AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #102

Alex violetpastille Dec 2018 #107

Does "freedom of movement" mean you can move and live where you choose? Go abroad? Nitram Dec 2018 #111

I hope you are able to visit China. violetpastille Dec 2018 #80

I think I agree. There is more than one China. sfwriter Dec 2018 #106

This atheist believes in freedom of and from religion. JNelson6563 Dec 2018 #87

China has been cracking down on Maoists, and I'd assume Maoism is more compatible than religion Pope George Ringo II Dec 2018 #88

The Chinese political model also prioritizes social organization over most other concerns. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2018 #90

Oh, definitely true Pope George Ringo II Dec 2018 #94

I understand the example of Chinese atheists is an issue. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #91

It would appear that you are about the only one with this "understanding"... NeoGreen Dec 2018 #96

As I said, a double standard. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #97

No text... NeoGreen Dec 2018 #98

No text, no response. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #118

The church is not the only organization that covers up such crimes. Look at all the companies and Nitram Dec 2018 #100

Boy Scouts is a relevant example AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #103

Yes, children are more vulnerable, and a traumatic event can influence them negatively for Nitram Dec 2018 #112

I wrote a post on the tendency of institutions to engage in cover ups of abusive behavior. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #120

Pointing out that abuse takes place in institutions other than the church does not in any way Nitram Dec 2018 #123

Bingo! And that is what gets missed all too often. MineralMan Dec 2018 #124

I agree. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #133

Which is exactly what you did. MineralMan Dec 2018 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Nitram Dec 2018 #129

My post was a reply to guillaumeb, not you. MineralMan Dec 2018 #130

My sincere apologies, MM. I wondered why your two posts seemed contradictory. Nitram Dec 2018 #131

No worries. I've done that, myself. MineralMan Dec 2018 #132

Misframing on your part. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #135

Diversion and whataboutism is never appropriate. MineralMan Dec 2018 #127

Ironic response. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #134

I'm turning chi-anese I think I'm turning chi-anese Corvo Bianco Dec 2018 #126

Indeed. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #128