Religion

The Velveteen Ocelot

(120,858 posts)

14. Those values are incompatible with *your* atheism,

Wed May 15, 2019, 10:36 AM

May 2019

not necessarily with anyone else's. The same values might be incompatible with someone else's Christianity (or Judaism, or Buddhism, or whatever), but, as we see every day, quite compatible with some others'. You don't need religion to be a good person and you can be a bad person with or without it. The problem with the author's position is that she seems to think she couldn't uphold her "good" values until she got Jesus. I would argue that if she already had "good" values she didn't need Jesus to be a good person -although evidently he makes her feel better about her life, which is her business.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

178 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

How Oxford and Peter Singer drove me from atheism to Jesus [View all] guillaumeb May 2019 OP

"No longer running from god." WTF A DAY IN THE LIFE May 2019 #1

Welcome to DU. guillaumeb May 2019 #2

Good question. MineralMan May 2019 #6

Vengeance? Ghost Dog May 2019 #19

Belief in gods. Voltaire2 May 2019 #67

The author was clearly already in search of something. bitterross May 2019 #107

Yep, much more to this story Major Nikon May 2019 #108

Look at her stated place of employment; Western Sydney U. Bretton Garcia May 2019 #110

Her employer rates pretty low among institutes of higher learning Major Nikon May 2019 #112

Sarah's job seems more serious: Bretton Garcia May 2019 #113

Curiously? There was a Dr. Irving Breakstone in Miami Bretton Garcia May 2019 #115

The author of the article is whoever she is. MineralMan May 2019 #116

Yep! Just More Will B. Will Be Will B. bitterross May 2019 #119

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. MineralMan May 2019 #120

I agree with this True Dough May 2019 #127

He's clearly writing for an audience. Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #114

Whatever an individual feels they need to give their life meaning is their business, The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #3

What comes first? guillaumeb May 2019 #8

It's a little difficult to understand how the implications of her atheism were incompatible with ... Jim__ May 2019 #4

I agree wih you that she is probably referring to Singer. guillaumeb May 2019 #9

Singer asserts that ethics that hold Voltaire2 May 2019 #69

Is Singer a vegatarian? guillaumeb May 2019 #71

So you demonstrably know nothing about Singer. Voltaire2 May 2019 #72

One of us is unfamiliar with Singer's veganism. guillaumeb May 2019 #75

It sounds more likely that she disagrees with Singer's views on human equality. Jim__ May 2019 #79

Is Singer wrong to question if ALL humans are equal? bitterross May 2019 #109

First, I wasn't judging Singer's claims, I was addressing an issue about ... Jim__ May 2019 #121

Thank you for a great response. bitterross May 2019 #123

My thoughts are that somebody in England became a Christian. MineralMan May 2019 #5

My thoughts are written here in my responses. guillaumeb May 2019 #11

I'm not familiar with Singer's thinking. MineralMan May 2019 #12

I have read some of what he writes. guillaumeb May 2019 #15

OK. I rarely read writings about atheism that are written by MineralMan May 2019 #30

Understood. guillaumeb May 2019 #32

So she said. MineralMan May 2019 #33

I found it to be interesting. guillaumeb May 2019 #35

Why did you find it interesting? See that's the thing. MineralMan May 2019 #52

She stated that she was an atheist. guillaumeb May 2019 #60

No, I'll take her word for it, MineralMan May 2019 #63

Well, you did write: guillaumeb May 2019 #65

I wouldn't argue with her, but I might not think her atheism MineralMan May 2019 #66

If we agree that each atheist personally defines atheism, guillaumeb May 2019 #68

Do you think that each atheist personally defines atheism? marylandblue May 2019 #83

Of course. guillaumeb May 2019 #89

Good, so I expect you'll never argue about the definition of atheism again. marylandblue May 2019 #91

I argued only for expanding the definition to include those who might believe. eom guillaumeb May 2019 #141

You argued with atheists here about the nature of their own beliefs marylandblue May 2019 #146

No, I argued that, as you said, they are beliefs. guillaumeb May 2019 #149

If their belief is that atheism is not a belief, then that is how they define their atheism. marylandblue May 2019 #151

Of course each atheist does that. MineralMan May 2019 #88

What a great point! Someone needs a spine. bitterross May 2019 #111

I'd bet my firstborn he completely agrees with the OP. Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #118

Uh what? Singer is famous for his utilitarian Voltaire2 May 2019 #70

If you have read any of his dissertations about Abrahamic theism, guillaumeb May 2019 #73

You demonstrated upthread that you Voltaire2 May 2019 #74

Ironic that your reply #71 demonstrates the opposite. guillaumeb May 2019 #76

Really? Let's go to the wiki. Voltaire2 May 2019 #77

Agreed. guillaumeb May 2019 #78

Wtf are you on about? Voltaire2 May 2019 #80

Have you already forgotten? guillaumeb May 2019 #81

Perhaps you should study his thinking in more detail and let us know. marylandblue May 2019 #84

You do understand that vegans are a subset of vegetarians right. Voltaire2 May 2019 #85

Also thinks deists are a subset of theists Major Nikon May 2019 #104

What kind of values are incompatible with atheism? Cartoonist May 2019 #7

And they are present in non-theists as well. guillaumeb May 2019 #10

And she's welcome to her story. MineralMan May 2019 #13

What lesson are we to take? guillaumeb May 2019 #18

And yet, you found it interesting enough to share here. MineralMan May 2019 #22

Your many anecdotal observations support your own narrative. guillaumeb May 2019 #23

It's not that I don't like the anecdote. MineralMan May 2019 #25

We understand how MM's post supports his narrative. marylandblue May 2019 #45

Thank you. MineralMan May 2019 #46

Needs further explanation Cartoonist May 2019 #17

You listed several things that are present in humans. guillaumeb May 2019 #20

You missed Cartoonist May 2019 #26

The logic behind your question is puzzling to me. guillaumeb May 2019 #27

No Cartoonist May 2019 #31

Yes, she did claim that. guillaumeb May 2019 #34

It is exclusive Cartoonist May 2019 #37

Do all theists hate? guillaumeb May 2019 #39

I never said all Cartoonist May 2019 #40

You cannot logically assert that you know why theists hate. guillaumeb May 2019 #41

Jeez, whatever gave me that idea? Cartoonist May 2019 #47

Those values are incompatible with *your* atheism, The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #14

Well, it was just an anecdote about one person's decision. MineralMan May 2019 #21

People publish personal anecdotes all the time. Obviously it meant something to the author, The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #24

Falconry? guillaumeb May 2019 #28

I find personal anecdotes to be very interesting when they are MineralMan May 2019 #29

Sarah seems superficial on Christianity Bretton Garcia May 2019 #90

Rose-colored glasses are very popular, I understand, MineralMan May 2019 #99

She also appears to not realize... trotsky May 2019 #101

Yes, I don't like those values, either. MineralMan May 2019 #16

Not so much incompatible as non-complimentary Major Nikon May 2019 #92

Singer also made an ethical case for Vegetarianism/Veganism. AtheistCrusader May 2019 #138

Anyone who is convinced by "Mere Christianity" wasn't looking for answers. trotsky May 2019 #36

So you dismissed her claim of being an atheist? guillaumeb May 2019 #38

I'm commenting on how awful Mere Christianity is. trotsky May 2019 #42

So you accept that she was an atheist, and retract your claim? guillaumeb May 2019 #44

You clearly didn't read what I wrote. trotsky May 2019 #50

Looked more like a desire for strawman Major Nikon May 2019 #93

She says she was from a "secular" family Bretton Garcia May 2019 #95

I've read "Mere Christianity," and although it's a beautifully-written explanation The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #43

I share that criticism of that book. MineralMan May 2019 #48

I was raised a Christian. trotsky May 2019 #51

Yes. The book has helped many on their road to atheism. MineralMan May 2019 #55

Since you don't like religion and were predisposed to disagree The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #53

Actually, you're incorrect about that. MineralMan May 2019 #57

Wheaton Cartoonist May 2019 #59

Yeah, I agree. MineralMan May 2019 #64

I probably wouldn't have lasted long there. MineralMan May 2019 #87

OK, fair enough. I read it when I was much older, and because The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #82

I'm sort of naturally logical in my approach MineralMan May 2019 #86

The entire piece rings of bullshit Major Nikon May 2019 #94

Sure does. trotsky May 2019 #98

You can hear the same horseshit from batshit crazy streetcorner preachers Major Nikon May 2019 #103

Hey now. He doesn't always tell people how wrong they are. trotsky May 2019 #105

... Major Nikon May 2019 #106

Thoughts? Cartoonist May 2019 #49

It's also a two-year-old piece. trotsky May 2019 #54

Damn! I didn't notice the date. MineralMan May 2019 #58

Very good. guillaumeb May 2019 #62

Whatever you need for your agenda, g. trotsky May 2019 #96

Well, two years is quite some time, and Sarah may have changed her mind MineralMan May 2019 #117

Yes, the Rec standard. guillaumeb May 2019 #61

You're the one who has claimed to have a giant fan club sending you private messages. trotsky May 2019 #97

going to church, several of them, drove me to atheism. demigoddess May 2019 #56

How Christians drove me to atheism. Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #100

"I knelt in my closet in my apartment and asked Jesus" MineralMan May 2019 #102

Another interesting stand-out. AtheistCrusader May 2019 #139

Many of the indigenous cultures they encountered MineralMan May 2019 #145

Sarah Irving-Stonebraker, and Science-Fiction Christianity Bretton Garcia May 2019 #122

I didn't know anything about Singer before, but I see he has a unique moral perspective marylandblue May 2019 #124

The fundamental error is believing that one person, Peter Singer, MineralMan May 2019 #125

Great words as usual Ferrets are Cool May 2019 #126

I think is a general discomfort with the idea that there is no ultimate justice. marylandblue May 2019 #129

I would think that Humanism might represent the ethics edhopper May 2019 #134

All atheists "represent" atheism. guillaumeb May 2019 #142

All atheists represent themselves. MineralMan May 2019 #143

We disagree. guillaumeb May 2019 #144

Of course we disagree. MineralMan May 2019 #147

So we can judge Christianity by the examples of individual Christians? marylandblue May 2019 #148

Do we not judge everyone by their actions? guillaumeb May 2019 #150

Based on everything you've said before, no category is relevant for any purpose. marylandblue May 2019 #152

We all act for our own reasons. guillaumeb May 2019 #153

Atheists on this site have been telling you this for years. marylandblue May 2019 #154

If that is your preferred narrative, I understand. eom guillaumeb May 2019 #155

Or so you have convinced yourself. MineralMan May 2019 #156

Ironically, I think the same thing about many of your posts. eom guillaumeb May 2019 #159

Yah, OK, then. MineralMan May 2019 #161

My preferred narrative is called "the truth." marylandblue May 2019 #157

What is truth? guillaumeb May 2019 #160

It's very weird for a Christian to quote Pilate's cynical question. marylandblue May 2019 #162

What an odd thing to bring up... MineralMan May 2019 #163

Truth has many meanings. guillaumeb May 2019 #164

No, not really. MineralMan May 2019 #165

You are confused about the various meanings of the word truth. guillaumeb May 2019 #166

I believe this form of lying is called dissembling. marylandblue May 2019 #167

Perhaps you should research the word truth. guillaumeb May 2019 #168

I did research the word. And I know a postmodern narrative when I see one. marylandblue May 2019 #169

And what type of truth are there? guillaumeb May 2019 #170

What makes your narrative postmodern, is that you can take any text marylandblue May 2019 #171

And what was the clear intent? guillaumeb May 2019 #172

Well, since I am the one who brought up the word "truth," marylandblue May 2019 #173

Thank you for the clarification of intent. eom guillaumeb May 2019 #177

Well now that you know why I picked that word, perhaps you could consider marylandblue May 2019 #178

"You are confused" trotsky May 2019 #174

... Act_of_Reparation May 2019 #175

No, actually, I am not. MineralMan May 2019 #176

Whether or not you agree with Singer his methods are far superior Major Nikon May 2019 #128

Divine Justice? Cartoonist May 2019 #130

Who do you think I might be paraphrasing? marylandblue May 2019 #131

Peter Singer Cartoonist May 2019 #132

I was paraphrasing a quick survey of her impression of what he seems to be saying. marylandblue May 2019 #133

My thoughts are that for someone who apparently got her PhD from Cambridge, logic or clear writing muriel_volestrangler May 2019 #135

Irving-Stonebraker writes a cliched "captivity," then "conversion narrative" Bretton Garcia May 2019 #136

I am convinced it's a narrative crafted to appeal to evangelical christians. AtheistCrusader May 2019 #140

Or Irving-Stonebraker genuinely loves cliches Bretton Garcia May 2019 #158

'Bullpucky'. AtheistCrusader May 2019 #137