Religion

MineralMan

(147,606 posts)

39. We impose many things here.

Wed Jun 26, 2019, 05:06 PM

Jun 2019

I oppose many of them. Every society imposes things on some people. That's unavoidable.

Where I live, I see Muslim women in all levels of dress. Are all of them being oppressed? I do not know. Ilhan Omar wears head coverings. Is she being oppressed? Right wingers mock and insult her for it. I have met her, now. I doubt she wears them to satisfy anyone else.

My principles are simple: Do not impose your will on others. I can do that. I cannot force others to do that, though, in many cases. Often, I do not know it is happening, or cannot discern another person's wishes.

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Muslim women defy ban to swim in burkinis at French pool 24 June 2019 [View all] guillaumeb Jun 2019 OP

This may have no bearing on the situation, however, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #1

You're absolutely right. It has no bearing on the situation. trotsky Jun 2019 #6

And what about analysis based on facts? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #10

There are facts and there is speculation based on prejudice. trotsky Jun 2019 #13

We agree that anti-religious prejudice is behind the burkini ban. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #19

Nope. trotsky Jun 2019 #22

You have not demonstrated that it is the nonreligious who are objecting MineralMan Jun 2019 #14

The ban itself, and the political support for it, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #28

You have not demonstrated that at all. MineralMan Jun 2019 #29

And this further attempt at avoidance guillaumeb Jun 2019 #30

It demonstrates that I disagree with you. MineralMan Jun 2019 #31

You don't mind if I bookmark your post here for future use do you? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #61

Bookmarks are free here. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #63

A dossier, I hope? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #64

Are dossiers also free? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #66

Facts. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #16

You're probably pretty familiar with French history. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #24

The phrase "I was plenty provoked, thank you." springs to mind. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #56

Well, good for them for asserting their rights. MineralMan Jun 2019 #2

Agreed. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #5

Yeah, strange that someone would be more outraged at this... trotsky Jun 2019 #7

I just think the entire thing is utter nonsense. MineralMan Jun 2019 #8

It is all nonsense. trotsky Jun 2019 #9

What you mean is: guillaumeb Jun 2019 #11

He did not say that at all. MineralMan Jun 2019 #12

Yes, the open hostility to theists and theism. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #17

Oh, my! MineralMan Jun 2019 #18

You just don't understand Major Nikon Jun 2019 #25

Oh, I understand perfectly well. MineralMan Jun 2019 #26

That is a complete and utter falsehood. trotsky Jun 2019 #15

Please do not presume to tell others what they mean. MineralMan Jun 2019 #27

You are forgetting that Boston Atheists were once mean to a Trump supporter Major Nikon Jun 2019 #20

... trotsky Jun 2019 #23

France is not the US Major Nikon Jun 2019 #21

That is true, of course. MineralMan Jun 2019 #32

Religionists typically have the expectation their "rights" trump everything else Major Nikon Jun 2019 #33

For me, individual expression is something I MineralMan Jun 2019 #36

It's easy to consider such things in a vacuum Major Nikon Jun 2019 #37

We impose many things here. MineralMan Jun 2019 #39

I have a simpler way of looking at it Major Nikon Jun 2019 #40

I agree with that. MineralMan Jun 2019 #41

Wrong venue Cartoonist Jun 2019 #3

The correct venue. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #4

Clearly some are more concerned with religious intolerance than gender intolerance Major Nikon Jun 2019 #34

Religious sect Z forces women to cover their bodies. Country X won't let them. trotsky Jun 2019 #35

Isn't it wonderful when you can use tolerance to further intolerance? Major Nikon Jun 2019 #38

'But I know a couple people who say they *want* to!' AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #86

The burkini ban in some public pools is wrong edhopper Jun 2019 #42

If freedom in France is restricted to European attitudes and behaviors, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #45

And the second part of my question edhopper Jun 2019 #48

You will not get a response to that. trotsky Jun 2019 #49

Your attempt at analysis fails on many levels. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #52

No framing is necessary. trotsky Jun 2019 #53

I agree that your framing fails, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #54

Yes, people CAN read what you actually say. trotsky Jun 2019 #55

Are all women who wear the hijab subjugated? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #51

And women vote edhopper Jun 2019 #57

Some vote in that way because they believe it. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #59

So if subjugated people edhopper Jun 2019 #70

And now you are certain that they are brainwashed as well. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #72

Maybe you can point me to a matriarchal or matrilineal society that employs face coverings. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #58

My answer indicates that these Muslim theocracies are patriarchal. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #60

But does not address why some choose to keep wearing them when not embedded in that AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #62

The word "choose" is key here. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #65

You seem to be dodging my question. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #67

Your question is not to the point. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #68

It is the point. You claim they need to be free to choose. Are they? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #69

You are diverting from the topic, possibly in an atempt to minimize this example guillaumeb Jun 2019 #71

It's a simple question, that could be more easily answered than your gyrations in dodging it. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #74

Are you? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #75

Yes, it's called social enforcement. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #78

Also, point of order, your own argumentation has drifted from the French situation. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #73

Which is why they closed the pool? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #76

Yeah, I suspect the government is going 'this is a bridge too far'. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #79

What liberties must one lose in the name of security? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #81

Walk into a bank with a ski mask on, in any country, and you tell me. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #83

A bank is not a pool. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #84

There are contextually appropriate circumstances. I view a pool and a bank as a public accomodation AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #85

While I agree, in part, with your response, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #87

So it's never religion with you edhopper Jun 2019 #89

Religion is a part of all theists. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #90

What attitudes does that include edhopper Jun 2019 #50

Is there a free society? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #77

Well... some of us are subject to the consequences of those rules, to a degree. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #80

Nice. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #82

Even if it includes edhopper Jun 2019 #88

Now the city has closed the pools. Eugene Jun 2019 #43

"See what you made us do, you filthy Muslim women?" MineralMan Jun 2019 #44

Very well said. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #47

Thank you for the update. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #46

My family went to a public pool in France. PassingFair Jul 2019 #91

Burkinis are intended to be, and designed to be, swimwear. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #92