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Igel

(36,082 posts)
8. These things tend to be highly spun.
Sun Jul 28, 2019, 06:30 PM
Jul 2019

And the article you read depends to a great extent on the person doing the writing.

One big complaint--largely from Hawai'ian sources--deals with money. They don't like that for these massive, expensive buildings, the University is charged a pittance and charges 10s of thousands of dollars. (largely paid for by grants, and the University's non-profit.) Money should go to native causes and to help the native population.

The complaint "we demand that the government respect our notions of what's sacred and accommodate our religion on what's public grounds" is always squirrelly. A lot of people who said no to a cross or Xian services are less likely to object if the religious services are non-majority/non-dominant and go downright supportive if they're "indigenous" beliefs that need an establishment of Congress to support them. The principle as a principle only matters for some people when it achieves the desire goal.

A lot of it is distrust. But sort of generalized. "No, this part of the government has nothing to do with me and never has, but I distrust it." Exerting power over something tends to reduce the level of distrust greatly, even if nothing else changes. Flattery helps. But really, it's back to money, because what's the good of your having power if what you control doesn't benefit *you*.

The environment concerns I don't tend to count very highly. Like "climate change," the telescope's not going to have that big an impact. But it's a politically prominent claim. Aquifers, too. If there were snail darters and tropical frogs in the news somebody would say, "You know, we haven't had a study that conclusively shows that there are no snail darters or tropical frogs in the area."

Yes, I'm cynical. On the other hand, this battle's been going on for a while. And the same battle was fought numerous times in the past, but notice that there are already clusters of telescopes there. Each of which was built after power, money, and sufficient lipservice was shown to the right activists, advocates, and politicians.

The problem is that many religious arguments are provably wrong. CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2019 #1
I agree. Religion (mythology) should typically yield to Science bitterross Jul 2019 #5
The hot spot responsible for Mauna Kea did "birth" all of Hawaii FBaggins Jul 2019 #2
That was a study citing a sample size of 78 Hawaiians. mahina Jul 2019 #6
I didn't reference a particular study. FBaggins Jul 2019 #10
There was only one and that is the one I linked for you. mahina Jul 2019 #12
There's only one? FBaggins Jul 2019 #14
If there was another survey that showed support in that range it would be in the mahina Jul 2019 #17
This I've got to hear FBaggins Jul 2019 #18
Didn't say anything about the DNC mahina Jul 2019 #19
The Democratic Party in Hawaii is part of the DNC FBaggins Jul 2019 #25
You completely misunderstand the scale of the problem. mahina Jul 2019 #26
Lol. I appreciate the entertainment. FBaggins Jul 2019 #27
It's Not Quite As Simple As That Me. Jul 2019 #3
More Me. Jul 2019 #4
Except this isn't the US government. n/t Igel Jul 2019 #7
To That I Would Have To Say That The US Presence Has Always been Felt In Hawaii Me. Jul 2019 #15
I agree there is more to it. edhopper Jul 2019 #9
Well THis May Not Be The Discussion You Intended Me. Jul 2019 #16
I don't mind edhopper Jul 2019 #21
Thanks, Me Hekate Jul 2019 #11
There's all sorts of differences Major Nikon Aug 2019 #40
Thank you. mahina Jul 2019 #20
Mahalo, Me, for your input Cha Jul 2019 #33
... Me. Jul 2019 #35
These things tend to be highly spun. Igel Jul 2019 #8
To be fair the money received would be split 80/20 mahina Jul 2019 #22
This might be something of a change of pace, but I kind of agree. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2019 #46
I'm surprised but am supportive of the native rights...I thought that there were already ... SWBTATTReg Jul 2019 #13
Post #15 Me. Jul 2019 #23
There are many telescopes edhopper Jul 2019 #24
Probably don't want people with massive telescopes looking democratisphere Jul 2019 #28
That's Tahitian. mahina Jul 2019 #29
Hey! I needed grass skirt hula dancers and this is what boogle gave me. democratisphere Jul 2019 #30
Hey, no worse reasoning than some! mahina Jul 2019 #31
When I read stuff like this I tend to think about people PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2019 #32
Ignorant? Me. Jul 2019 #34
Yeah, I know I'm extremely biased in favor of reality. PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2019 #36
Nice Try At Whataboutism Me. Jul 2019 #37
Nope. PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2019 #38
You're Stomping All Over Other's Beliefs Disrespectfully Me. Jul 2019 #39
If belief is free to promote itself... Major Nikon Aug 2019 #41
They Aren't Promoting Me. Aug 2019 #42
You are missing the point Major Nikon Aug 2019 #43
They Can Disparage It All They Want Me. Aug 2019 #44
That wasn't the point either Major Nikon Aug 2019 #45
That Was One Of My Points Me. Aug 2019 #47
I am Native American Major Nikon Aug 2019 #48
Of Course I'm Not In Favor Of Irredememably ChangIng Hawaii Me. Aug 2019 #50
You did make it clear as did I Major Nikon Aug 2019 #51
What? Me. Aug 2019 #52
On the one hand I am indifferent to 'sacredness'. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #49
Despite its small size, large parts of Hawaii are still relatively unspoiled Major Nikon Aug 2019 #53
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