Religion

Mariana

(15,140 posts)

19. Lucifer didn't do that all by himself, did he?

Tue Jul 30, 2019, 06:12 PM

Jul 2019

This particular story is fascinating. A bunch of the angels hated the rule of The Creator™ so much that they tried to stage a coup in Heaven. What did they think The Creator™ was doing wrong, that they thought they could do better? Granted, The Creator™ created humans such that none can avoid sin, and no one can reasonably argue that a 100% failure rate isn't a bad design. Maybe Lucifer and the rest of the rebels *could* have done a better job of it than The Creator™ did.

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"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" [View all] DetlefK Jul 2019 OP

well God would have had to have known that Lucifer would do that TalenaGor Jul 2019 #1

Spins your head, does it? PJMcK Jul 2019 #3

seriously....ffs... I told someone I my theory on how we got Jesus.... TalenaGor Jul 2019 #4

The god of the Old Testament is a pretty crappy dude PJMcK Jul 2019 #2

The God of the New Testament isn't remarkably better. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2019 #12

Not quite PJMcK Jul 2019 #27

Now from those of us humans who are less goodly-- dawg day Jul 2019 #5

Lucifer tried to replace the Creator. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #6

Which section of your holy book described Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #7

Are they to be believed... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #8

As far as I know they aren't described at all Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #9

That's not what we read in this forum, where some people... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #10

And is Milton an undiscovered disciple... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #11

"Lucifer" the "light bringer." trotsky Jul 2019 #13

I think I heard this story before... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #14

Your translation of the name Lucifer is correct. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #15

Every time you accuse others of following a narrative... trotsky Jul 2019 #16

Perhaps if you debated my actual positions......eom guillaumeb Jul 2019 #17

Is your actual position that Lucifer was the bad guy? trotsky Jul 2019 #18

The sin of Lucifer was pride. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #20

So, was Lucifer the bad guy? trotsky Jul 2019 #23

Lucifer didn't do that all by himself, did he? Mariana Jul 2019 #19

The story of Lucifer illustrates pride leading to a separation from the Creator, guillaumeb Jul 2019 #21

Bringer of light partly relates to the planet Venus; Bretton Garcia Jul 2019 #22

I understand. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #25

But in this reading, it is Jesus and Christianity that pridefully... Bretton Garcia Aug 2019 #40

Christians believe that Jesus perfected the message of the Creator. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #42

And you get zero response to a very good question. trotsky Jul 2019 #24

Why did they revolt? guillaumeb Jul 2019 #26

A bit OT hurl Jul 2019 #29

My faith leads me to believe in a Creator. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #35

I have the free will to murder someone right now. trotsky Jul 2019 #30

All of the angels could have risen up, but they didn't. Mariana Jul 2019 #31

Also obvious is that free will allows each being to choose their actions. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #36

Mariana, well done saidsimplesimon Jul 2019 #28

Hi Mariana - thank you for posting this thought provoking question. Pendrench Jul 2019 #33

An interesting point. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #37

Well, why not, he was a shitty creator. AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #34

If you were the Creator, what would you have done differently? guillaumeb Jul 2019 #38

Would have created an intelligent being and watched what happens next. DetlefK Aug 2019 #39

Sentient beings are intelligent. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #43

Okay, but now we need a definition for sentient. DetlefK Aug 2019 #45

Self awareness is critical. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #46

Is that rhetorical, or do you want an actual list? AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #41

But would this system be perfect, or allow for growth? guillaumeb Aug 2019 #44

Depends. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #47

Perhaps the tools of the Creator are too fine and leave such subtle marks guillaumeb Aug 2019 #48

Well, there's a couple ways of looking at it. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #49

Expecting to see such marks, or recognizing that the marks are there, guillaumeb Aug 2019 #51

It implies nothing more than the capacity to understand our Universe. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #54

So you worship a god intent on tricking people. trotsky Aug 2019 #50

The word "tricking" is your framing. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #52

Now you're the royal "we"? trotsky Aug 2019 #53

Love is divine. LuvLoogie Jul 2019 #32