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The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
66. Paul In His Own Time, Sir, Was An Outlier
Wed Jun 16, 2021, 06:55 PM
Jun 2021

He became the mainstream only after the razing of the Temple, and the destruction of the original congregation based on personal acquaintance with the executed leader.

Paul preached to Gentiles, and to take him at his word, by the end of his career most of 'his' converts in Asia Minor, his chief field of evangelism, had turned from him, either in disappointment of hopes the end would soon come, or persuasion that some elements of Mosaic law, whether circumcision or dietary restrictions, were necessary to full fellowship with the original Jewish congregation.

After the siege of Jerusalem, however, what remained of Paul's converts in the west presented the only functioning bodies of believers, and further, these needed to disassociate themselves from Judaism, which was under heavy proscription as a rebel's creed. Since what writings of Paul that survived clearly established separation from distinctive Jewish practices, and into the bargain urged cooperation with Imperial authorities in all matters civil, if not religious, they were useful in enabling this particular Messianic cult to survive, albeit pulled up from its Jewish roots.

A dying and rising god, paired with a goddess, was certainly an established feature of religious life in the early Roman empire. Two were particularly popular, Isis and Osiris, and Cybele and Adonis. They have nothing in common with any feature of Jewish culture or belief, and this, remember, is certainly the milieu in which Christianity did arise. Certainly no one holding forth as the Messiah, the righteous redeemer of the Law, could possibly be taken seriously by any Jewish crowd if he taught anything readily recognizable as derived from these polytheistic pagan beliefs.

While nothing can be certainly known about the actions and teachings of the man in question, and none of the gospels can be treated as a reliable source, a great deal is known about the ideas and prophecies which made up Messianic belief in general, and there is no doubt the Jewish people early in the first century were gripped by Messianic expectations. Indeed, some of the people proclaiming themselves to be Messiah in that period are better testified to than this one, as they managed to garner a mention in Roman records. Belief in an imminent judgement, and a reign of righteousness due to commence soon, in which the wicked were to be punished and the faithful exalted, features prominently in Messianic belief. It would have featured in any Messianic preaching in some form.

The idea of a vast settling of accounts would have held great attraction in the Roman world, a world of slavery and exploitation, of cruelty and great disparities of station even among the free. The idea this apocalyptic settling would come soon, that you might well live to see it and enjoy its fruits, would have been a powerful recruiting pitch.

Q-Anoners are NOT Christians then. ProudMNDemocrat Jun 2021 #1
It was an anology of the two edhopper Jun 2021 #5
According to you. Voltaire2 Jun 2021 #30
There Is Something To That, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2021 #2
Weren't many of the writings about Jesus done a century after his death? krispos42 Jun 2021 #12
The Gospels edhopper Jun 2021 #13
A Lot Is In Paul's Epistles, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2021 #25
Paul never met the physical Jesus, uriel1972 Jun 2021 #59
True, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2021 #60
All true... uriel1972 Jun 2021 #61
I see No Pressing Reason, Sir, To Doubt The Historicity Of The Man The Magistrate Jun 2021 #62
By the same reasoning.... uriel1972 Jun 2021 #63
Or Comrade Ogilvey, For That Matter, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2021 #64
I disagree with your assumptions... uriel1972 Jun 2021 #65
Paul In His Own Time, Sir, Was An Outlier The Magistrate Jun 2021 #66
I think that analogy makes sense. Croney Jun 2021 #3
True, especially one line Doc Sportello Jun 2021 #4
Yes edhopper Jun 2021 #6
Yes. Mariana Jun 2021 #19
And that many of the events edhopper Jun 2021 #20
Oh look. Another reason to hate religion linked to crazy Qanon. On the religion board. TigressDem Jun 2021 #7
Edhopper didn't bash anyone. Mariana Jun 2021 #9
Thanks edhopper Jun 2021 #14
Yes indeed. Godless masses. Mariana Jun 2021 #18
It's an open religion forum edhopper Jun 2021 #10
Well, if science is your religion, post there instead. TigressDem Jun 2021 #15
Wow edhopper Jun 2021 #21
Wow indeed. This is not how Jesus instructed his followers to behave Mariana Jun 2021 #26
And I did not say anything about modern Christians edhopper Jun 2021 #27
Not only that Mariana Jun 2021 #16
Religion has a long and ugly history Pantagruel Jun 2021 #8
I hear you about horrible things that have been done in the name of religion or "God" TigressDem Jun 2021 #28
Well argued, and currently unanswered by anyone here. guillaumeb Jun 2021 #32
Give them time. TigressDem Jun 2021 #38
Not really the topic of my OP edhopper Jun 2021 #40
I was replying to post #8 TigressDem Jun 2021 #41
I don't. n/t CousinIT Jun 2021 #11
This post is bullshit ! Ya wanna see people come back 3Hotdogs Jun 2021 #17
LOL edhopper Jun 2021 #22
Love your analogy. For years I have been using Superman and Batman comics rurallib Jun 2021 #23
I use Davey Crockett edhopper Jun 2021 #24
Filed under: no shit. Voltaire2 Jun 2021 #29
I believe the phrase is edhopper Jun 2021 #34
The analogy is weak. guillaumeb Jun 2021 #31
Exactly zero to do edhopper Jun 2021 #33
It goes to the larger question about the existence of a deity. guillaumeb Jun 2021 #51
But my post edhopper Jun 2021 #54
And the Gospels reflect a belief in a deity. guillaumeb Jun 2021 #55
And Qanon edhopper Jun 2021 #56
That is an interesting take on it. TigressDem Jun 2021 #36
What exactly is your issue with this OP being posted in the Religion Group? Mariana Jun 2021 #37
You really completely edhopper Jun 2021 #42
OK - Educate me. TigressDem Jun 2021 #44
The unrestrained discussion of religion edhopper Jun 2021 #45
So this is a bash religion group? Hmmm. I did not get that from the stated purpose. TigressDem Jun 2021 #46
Religion may be bashed in this Group. Mariana Jun 2021 #48
Generally religion is bashed here. guillaumeb Jun 2021 #53
Exactly. guillaumeb Jun 2021 #52
Scientific Method and your Question/Hypothesis. TigressDem Jun 2021 #35
Perhaps you are unaware edhopper Jun 2021 #39
I did my homework and provided links. Where are yours? TigressDem Jun 2021 #43
Oh wait! I finally understand. TigressDem Jun 2021 #47
"...doing to you what you say is permitted on this board doesn't feel right... Mariana Jun 2021 #49
And it's not just Q edhopper Jun 2021 #50
Scientology is already better proof of that. (n/t) Iggo Jun 2021 #57
Yes and no edhopper Jun 2021 #58
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