Closed Loop Pulse Propulsion: A new Guide with Models, Interactive VPython Scripts, Explanations and stories!

[mikelewis]

11. Thanks Ptah

Last edited Thu Oct 3, 2024, 12:32 PM - Edit history (81)

Ptah... thank you for all of your help...
honestly... I didn't feel it was right to link that in this post but you did it for me so thank you... since I posted it in Dec there's only been like 10 new views a day and it's only had about 5,000 or so views at this point...and that felt a little light so thanks for kicking that post up a notch... you're the best man!!! I do want to stress... there was a lot that was intentionally wrong in those posts... but the core ideas are all there.... you just have to sort of dig them out and it's definitely not the easiest concept to grasp in the midst of all that shitty heckling... but the book fixes all of that... again... buddy... thanks for the assist but seriously, I honestly don't need the help... I got this... stop kicking this post... let it die

On edit:

Your annoying and repellent nature aside, it turns out, you are absolutely correct... that would cause propulsion in space. That's not a completely elastic collision, the ball would deform only on one side of the equation and the rubber band experiences heat loss due to it's own deformation, meaning the equal and opposite equation is unbalanced... which means you'd actually move out of your x,y,z position, you'd have substantial displacement over time. Here... read for yourself... you won't believe it.

(And I got the mechanics of SpaceBalls incorrect but AI overlooked it and did the problem correctly. You have to push the SpaceBalls forward... not backward and then catch them in your stomach... wait... it's confusing... Here, start over... you push the SpaceBalls so while they are wrapping around you, you are flying backwards when you are catching them in your stomach... Wait no... they push you... DAMN SPACEBALLS!!!)

And if you don't understand what that means... these VPython experiments should help explain the concept. You are deforming the ball only on one side of the equation and converting the linear motion of the ball into heat... The first script is the unbalanced propulsion you would experience... sort of and this next link shows you what happens when you convert momentum to heat.

If you would like to chat with a GPT that is designed to talk about this concept...

This Assistant has been given relevant chapters from the book plus excerpts from other chats so he is primed and ready to talk about anything and everything related to Closed Loop Pulse Propulsion. You do need the paid subscription to OPENAI though... sorry... but it's totally worth it, at least for me.

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-ec7nLSqiq-closed-loop-pulse-propulsion-physicist

Extra Credit

Your Assignment: The Dreaded Railguns in Space Experiment!

Basic Model Design

Platform: 10,000 kg
Slug: 100 Kg
Recoil Force: 2000 m/s
Distance travelled to Redirect Point: 100m
Distance travelled to Front Wall Stop: 200 m
Initial Radius of Redirect: 20m
Final Radius of Redirect: 1m

A 10,000 Kg platform fires off two 100kg slugs at the same time, causing recoil in the platform and the slugs. The platform moves in one direction and the slugs the other. The slugs fly the 100m and both hit the turn arounds at the same time, cancelling out any gyrational rotation and not causing any change to the linear motion of the platform. The slugs are captured by the tether, the radius is reduced and the kinetic energy is substantially increased as the slugs are redirected 180 degrees and let loose to fly to the front wall. Both accelerated masses are then stopped against the platform with an electromagnet. (Oddly, there's is no gain whatsoever from the Electromagnet as that reaction is a normal equal and opposite reaction which doesn't add to your linear momentum That actually drove me nuts for weeks trying to figure out why... I thought surely there must be at least some boost!...then I got it. )
***On reflection, it might work if we put the electromagnet on the arm itself, just a thought...
****Reflecting on the reflection... nope, still won't do shit. Dammit... I don't know why I can't let it go.

Challenge: Figure out how this stops in space after 1 complete cycle.

You have a forward thrust, a turn which does nothing to slow you down or speed you up... (these turns can't even turn you as they cancel out)... and then you have another forward thrust; two thrusts in the same direction. And you can't just say... '0 must 0'... AI tries that shit all the time. But think about it for a second, if you put energy in and manipulate it with more energy... the entirety of the energy has to go somewhere, and we know it's not in the slugs after they've stopped, for fucks sake.
(Physics, huh? And you thought we had figured it all out... 🤣 )

AI fucks up the math on this one too... dumbass.

One way to think of the Railguns in Space system is that this concept is the equal and opposite reaction to this concept.
The trick is not worrying about the slug (accelerated mass)... there is no slug. (Didn't that sound so Neo!😎 ) It's momentum will always equal 0 once all the interactions are accounted for.... it goes nowhere, it's now cargo, a part of the ship and it's going nowhere in relation to it's surroundings, just like both of the 'Professional Models'. So forget about that dead lump of metal... Imagine the "Ragin' Cajun" saying this...
'It's the platform, stupid!'

Those are levitation coils and not railguns but they operate using the same principle. This is the exact same model as the Extra Credit Railguns in Space Experiment. It works identical. Offsetting the dynamics does nothing... well in space.

On Earth, with the Green Armed Monster, offsetting the dynamics is beyond what I can do. Also on Earth, gravity leads to friction which grinds the platform to a halt. And notice how the complete lack of linear momentum of the platform had no effect whatsoever on the angular momentum of the arm. Know why? It can't. Really? Yup, I mean Nope. I can not.

Now, have no doubt, this most certainly will propel garbage through the solar system... and you right along with it. It might take some time to get moving but eventually, that piece of shit can get you going faster than any rocket that man has ever built. You're just gonna need a bigger battery and be able to hold your breath in space for a really long time. If you're going to take that trip, I'd suggest two units as it'll make the ride better but you're fat enough I doubt it can turn you before the Green Arm starts back. (You may want to automate that with a nice mosfet button. I am a fan of mosfet buttons.)

I digress... But here, in the video you clearly see... the platform thrusts forward when the Green Arm is forced away. This is linear momentum. This is the exact same thing a rocket does, only less Hollywood.

Now the platform has stopped but the Green Arm, we see the spin that does nothing remotely to change the linear momentum of the platform. Notice the platforms immediate lack of linear momentum had zero effect on the angular momentum of the Green Arm. Friction offset the rotation of the platform, mostly, you still notice a shift on each hit. But with two Green Arms, there is no shift. You're completely sober.
(And much, much later on... you're going to find out why that is extremely important. But let's not get ahead ourselves, we're still thinking big here!)

So the entire time the Green Arm is swinging, the platform is turning... well, not turning, but you know it really wanted to. The platform... and the arm with it, they both also really wanted to keep going straight. In space, it would do both until that Green Arm smacks into the electromagnet at the other side, converting it's angular momentum into a swat on the ass.

Now the Green Arm will stop turning the platform and take all of that gas and dump it right in the carb, in the exact direction it's pointing. And that is thrust baby. That is also what drives a rocket, again, only less Hollywood. ( I feel I missed an opportunity there... that was weak, I'm sorry)

For those of you who don't understand. Yes, the Green Arm will swing around and hit you. I promise. I don't care how fast you're going, the shit works both ways. If the boat speeds up, your roulette wheel is fine... well bumpier but otherwise, it could care less... it's never gonna go around faster or slower, I don't care how fast you get the boat flying.

Also another Important Note.
I may not have mentioned anywhere earlier:
I think you may want two systems that work opposite each other. Like when you stand in the mirror and the words on your shirt are backwards. Did you get that... Deuce. You need two.
It takes two,
It takes two baby,
to make your platform fly right.
Why are you not getting this?
Hello, McFly....

(
I told you, they're dumb. 🤓

🫣 Look at that one picking his nose.

Would you shut up! 🤬
)