2016 Postmortem

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)

20. Your logic is flawed

Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:17 AM

Nov 2016

If we had a direct democracy, in the current atmosphere in the US, with margins of victory in the popular vote similar to what they are now ... it would likely lead to campaigning in more states in order to pick up a "couple hundred thousand" votes here and there which could (would) be the difference in the popular vote.

Under the current system candidates largely focus on ~ 10 swing states ... with voters in the remaining states a after thought.

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For those calling for the abolishment of the electoral college, here is one simple question. [View all] Exilednight Nov 2016 OP

Yes I would be concerned. JHan Nov 2016 #1

No. Because TRUMP. boston bean Nov 2016 #2

4 times to Democrats JonLP24 Nov 2016 #100

If Clinton had won the electoral college but not the popular vote I would have the same conerns etherealtruth Nov 2016 #3

I agree with one person equals one vote... BUT Exilednight Nov 2016 #4

It is actually more complex than that ... it is not simply people choosing not to vote etherealtruth Nov 2016 #11

1! eom BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #73

Yes. Every vote should have the same weight. athena Nov 2016 #5

So, if Hillary had won the EC but lost the popular vote ... you would still be crying foul? Exilednight Nov 2016 #6

Yes, I would. athena Nov 2016 #8

There's a few factual inaccuracies. Exilednight Nov 2016 #10

That's misleading. athena Nov 2016 #13

It does matter. Exilednight Nov 2016 #15

You confusing the way one wins the EC with the way one would win the popular vote. athena Nov 2016 #24

Those votes from California can't "come from anywhere". Exilednight Nov 2016 #37

Your logic is flawed etherealtruth Nov 2016 #20

A straight up popular vote is not going to change the problems we currently face with the EC. Exilednight Nov 2016 #70

Again, your reasoning is flawed etherealtruth Nov 2016 #98

How many states do you think candidates campaign in now? Statistical Nov 2016 #66

Approximately the same amount. That's the point. It would probably change nothing, but it could Exilednight Nov 2016 #67

Well I would point out that is the point of the Senate AND House. Statistical Nov 2016 #68

Assuming you're correct, here's my next question: How do you change it? Exilednight Nov 2016 #72

It can be bypassed with an interstate compact. In fact 11 states totalling 165 votes already have Statistical Nov 2016 #74

Article 10 Section 1 would negate it. Exilednight Nov 2016 #78

There is no Article 10? Statistical Nov 2016 #83

I meant Article 1 Section 10. My mistake. Exilednight Nov 2016 #85

Agreed it *may* need Congressional approval however that is still far easier (simple majority) ... Statistical Nov 2016 #89

It takes 60 votes in the Senate. Exilednight Nov 2016 #92

There is no way to hold or remedy a faithless state, the constitution TheKentuckian Nov 2016 #117

If the Great Compromise is a good idea for our legislative representation, why not for our executive sl8 Nov 2016 #105

Get Real Stargleamer Nov 2016 #114

Yes, the person who received the most votes should win. One man one vote. Otherwise why bother: onecaliberal Nov 2016 #7

One person, one vote. athena Nov 2016 #9

I don't think it should be abolished...just updated... TCJ70 Nov 2016 #12

This is the best response thus far. I agree. Exilednight Nov 2016 #14

If the EC is going to stay SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #16

I would actually reform it to equal voter turnout. Exilednight Nov 2016 #17

Excellent idea! n/t SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #23

In theory yes, but gerrymandering means that congressional districts Persondem Nov 2016 #33

Agree SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #35

If that were the case customerserviceguy Nov 2016 #43

Popular vote would be better, no doubt SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #45

As I see it customerserviceguy Nov 2016 #46

No, the House size needs to be increased to increase the EC Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #118

This!!!! AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #19

As I posted below National Popular Vote Interstate Compact etherealtruth Nov 2016 #28

If the people who are harmed by a unfair situation marybourg Nov 2016 #18

Very good question in the opening post. anamnua Nov 2016 #21

The best solution in my mind is National Popular Vote Interstate Compact etherealtruth Nov 2016 #22

I don't have a problem with that either SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2016 #25

I am sure there would be challenges but I am not so sure they would prevail etherealtruth Nov 2016 #27

If it ever got used customerserviceguy Nov 2016 #44

i do imagine it ... I think the Republicans will have to lose the presidency despite ... etherealtruth Nov 2016 #47

I don't see it that way ... I think a majority of Americans would embrace a direct democratic vote etherealtruth Nov 2016 #102

California and New York were among the first states to enact the National Popular Vote Compact etherealtruth Nov 2016 #113

And that's why I picked them as examples customerserviceguy Nov 2016 #121

Having the majority (plurality in both examples) of a country voters ignored because etherealtruth Nov 2016 #122

This compact customerserviceguy Dec 2016 #125

I have always been agains the EC louis c Nov 2016 #26

Yes. DavidDvorkin Nov 2016 #29

I've always thought the EC should be abolished, way before this campaign even started. DanTex Nov 2016 #30

yes Akacia Nov 2016 #31

What's the point of asking? You have already defined no. Lint Head Nov 2016 #32

No but if we didn't have the EC it wouldn't happen. When was the last time a Democrat won the EC doc03 Nov 2016 #34

He electoral college is an anti-democratic anachronism that should be abolished (but won't) Skinner Nov 2016 #36

The reason I pose this question is to get people to look past their own bias. Exilednight Nov 2016 #50

Yes she won the popular vote, but no she shouldn't be president. Skinner Nov 2016 #55

I agree that we should reform the system. The next step is: How? Exilednight Nov 2016 #63

No because it did the job it was intended to do. libtodeath Nov 2016 #38

Should we not have fought WWII against Nazism just because Hitler was legally appointed Chancellor? baldguy Nov 2016 #39

Yes we should have fought Nazism, but Hitler was attempting to exterminate an entire race. Exilednight Nov 2016 #53

Just wait. They already have the legal framework planned out. baldguy Nov 2016 #54

Not buying it HipHipHillary Nov 2016 #40

Hillary won the popular vote, lapucelle Nov 2016 #60

You're projecting. That is the way most Republicans think. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #130

Your premise doesn't work with me. TheLibIn615 Nov 2016 #41

I love this question, because we all know the answer is no. We want to win rather than change realmirage Nov 2016 #42

these are the questions I try to ask myself, and sometimes I admit I'm inconsistent. JCanete Nov 2016 #48

The electoral college isn't fair no matter who wins or loses. Vinca Nov 2016 #49

I would not be mad, but I would concede that it was unfair. Chemisse Nov 2016 #51

NO Motley13 Nov 2016 #52

No and yes, respectively. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2016 #56

If Hitler v.2 had lost the electoral vote. I would say buhbye to Hitler v.2 Madam45for2923 Nov 2016 #57

What is the point of this? Charlotte Little Nov 2016 #58

What is your opinion? kcr Nov 2016 #59

I believe the EC has a purpose, but I also believe it needs to be reformed. Exilednight Nov 2016 #64

You don't think Hillary already knows how it works? kcr Nov 2016 #76

I'm not going to presume to know what Hillary does or does not know. Exilednight Nov 2016 #80

No. You're just going to hint she doesn't know something. That's better, I guess. n/t kcr Nov 2016 #86

Yes that would taint treestar Nov 2016 #61

If we won this time? No, of course not. But I'd call for the abolishment of it after that, though. mtnsnake Nov 2016 #62

yep rurallib Nov 2016 #65

I have been against the electoral college since the 90's. musicblind Nov 2016 #69

I don't think everyone is a hypocrite. You're only a hypocrite if you answer no and then go on some Exilednight Nov 2016 #75

We need to make it go away. musicblind Nov 2016 #79

Republicans control both chambers, the presidency and soon the SC not to mention most governorships Exilednight Nov 2016 #82

We aren't, that's why I support the state level nationalpopularvote.com movement. musicblind Nov 2016 #87

You're talking about the interstate compact. Exilednight Nov 2016 #90

They aren't making a pact with other states. musicblind Nov 2016 #93

A lawyer could argue, and a right leaning SC would probably agree, that this is an illegal compact Exilednight Nov 2016 #99

I don't think they should abolish the electoral college, but they need to update it NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #71

Nice try. BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #77

Yep. Good point. JHan Nov 2016 #81

there's zero hypocrisy in wanting to abolish the electoral college *going forward* unblock Nov 2016 #84

I agree, there is nothing wrong with being against the EC, but there is much hypocricy on this board Exilednight Nov 2016 #88

well, it's not going to reverse trump's election, but it's not futile either unblock Nov 2016 #91

Politics brings out the hypocrisy in many of us. FBaggins Nov 2016 #94

Ha ha. JPR slime are suddenly in love with the EC after a year of bitching endlessly about superD's Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #95

This is correct. (nt) betsuni Nov 2016 #96

Who said anything about bering for the EC. Exilednight Nov 2016 #104

Ha ha. No you're a puppet. No you're the puppet. azmom Nov 2016 #109

I opposed the EC since 2000 JonLP24 Nov 2016 #97

For those trying to frame DU'ers as hypocrites, one simple question. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #101

Well, gosh. If YOU'RE not interested, why did the rest of us even dare to think that we Squinch Nov 2016 #103

Go back and please read what I posted. Exilednight Nov 2016 #106

I read it just fine, thanks. Squinch Nov 2016 #107

Then we will agree to disagree about how you understand my question. Happy Thanksgiving. Exilednight Nov 2016 #108

I really don't think anyone who created the EC envisioned the system we have currently. moriah Nov 2016 #110

Well, to be fair, when they the created the EC there were only a handful of states. Exilednight Nov 2016 #115

Recounting the entire country would be chaotic MichMan Nov 2016 #111

Yes. potone Nov 2016 #112

Also would've carried more weight if the calls came before the election results oberliner Nov 2016 #116

i absolutely support abolishing the EC, no matter which loser benefits from it. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #119

It is a "be careful what you wish for" proposition... annabanana Nov 2016 #120

"Abolition" kebob Nov 2016 #123

I would still call for the EC to be abolished. Ken Burch Nov 2016 #124

the EC has to go. It unfairly makes 1 Wyoming vote equal to 1000 California votes. putitinD Dec 2016 #126

First of all the EC isn't going to be abolished, but it should be. The popular vote, one person, still_one Dec 2016 #127

It is absolutely NOT a simple yes or no question. LisaM Dec 2016 #128

I'm in favor of abolishing the electoral college. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #129