2016 Postmortem

quaker bill

(8,237 posts)

73. I agree that the country lost.

Fri Nov 25, 2016, 08:44 AM

Nov 2016

Hillary ran a fine campaign. Since 2008, whenever pressed, I have stated that Hillary was good for 48% of the vote, if she did everything just right. She got +/-48.1% and she won the popular vote. She did this in the face of all the above adverse circumstances you list.

My point since 2008 has been that after 22 of the 30 years of clearly unjust "scorn and ridicule", these results for Hillary were already fully priced in. Hillary could optimize her performance and get to the full 48%, or fail to do so and ring up just 45 to 46%.

The map was a problem, but it was a blast from the past, say the 1980s, but with the demographic twist of vastly more "D" leaning Hispanics in the desert SW. It was a DLC map the unfortunate and unexpected tiny losses in PA, MI, and WI. Without this, the map was a winner.

One can sit here and second guess "what if Bernie?", "what if Joe Biden?", "what if Martin O'Malley?". All that is pointless. Had it been any other candidate, Trump would have adjusted to a different approach which may or may not have changed the outcome. It is impossible to predict the results of an experiment that was never run.

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Hillary Lost Because ... [View all] NanceGreggs Nov 2016 OP

"She didn't lose --the country did." Perfect. Hoyt Nov 2016 #1

100 Auntie Bush Nov 2016 #108

Damn straight ailsagirl Nov 2016 #152

Except ... she lost. earthside Nov 2016 #206

If you say so. Don't think you get it. Hoyt Nov 2016 #207

Oh, I get it ... earthside Nov 2016 #208

She kinda did lose though. SpareribSP Nov 2016 #212

This is true, but the amateur pundits it's aimed at are not listening. TreasonousBastard Nov 2016 #2

She lost because of a stupid outmoded electoral college pbmus Nov 2016 #3

Good! I'm following up PatrickforO Nov 2016 #56

Hillary lost because kacekwl Nov 2016 #100

So freaking well said. narnian60 Nov 2016 #123

Her first full year of responses on the emails absolutely WERE NOT admitting her mistakes. MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #132

As someone who worked in newspapers, I agree ... ificandream Nov 2016 #197

The Compact is probably unconstitutional, and likely violates the Voting Rights Act Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #105

Thank you for your time putting this together pbmus Nov 2016 #107

electoral college and hacking. nt TheFrenchRazor Nov 2016 #173

This is everything I've wanted to say but too slothful to attempt. betsuni Nov 2016 #4

Nance still has the energy and the fire. Thank gods for that. Hekate Nov 2016 #5

Yes... I don't necessarily agree with all of Nance's views, but she certainly makes her argument powerfully and eloquently. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #83

It's not just Hillary - Democrats in all areas are in the minority...you don't care to find out why? realmirage Nov 2016 #6

Thank you! ybbor Nov 2016 #16

Wait a minute! The GOP was/is on the brink of disaster. How do Democrats respond to the Nazi Party? SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2016 #48

Yes, if only she had pandered to transphobes and homophobes. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #76

Well Reasoned.............? HenryWallace Nov 2016 #101

We were suppose to "retool the party" after the election of 2000 INdemo Nov 2016 #80

Good article, thanks Martin Eden Nov 2016 #89

Exactly! green917 Nov 2016 #106

She lost because of lines drawn on a map in the 18th and 19th centuries. tinrobot Nov 2016 #7

Exactly pbmus Nov 2016 #9

And lines drawn by republican legislatures after the 2010 Census. muddrunner17 Nov 2016 #22

District lines play no part in the electoral college DeadEyeDyck Nov 2016 #82

amen, the ... FACT... that she won the popular vote means at ....MOST... there was a tactical error uponit7771 Nov 2016 #8

That only holds up if the only office is the Presidency and even that only narrowly against TheKentuckian Nov 2016 #191

Let me add #101 eridani Nov 2016 #10

Add Hillary herself to "those Democrats." nt MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #45

Yep. That was the death knell. Even a lot of regular Democrats hated that the Nay Nov 2016 #110

What's a "regular Democrat"? lapucelle Nov 2016 #144

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I don't consider myself a regular Democrat Nay Nov 2016 #179

The MEdia was the WORST i i have ever seen it this campaign . Google news search was full of JI7 Nov 2016 #11

I'm not convinced she lost. Let's see ffr Nov 2016 #12

Was she aware of how this worked? ybbor Nov 2016 #13

move on? Skittles Nov 2016 #20

Ok... ybbor Nov 2016 #24

I want everyone to know the TRUTH about what happened with this election Skittles Nov 2016 #26

It'll certainly be paying for it for decades if you just sit back and refight the same battle. Kentonio Nov 2016 #219

Oh, I get it now! NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #21

Wrong ybbor Nov 2016 #29

Thank you! dae Nov 2016 #43

I hate pointing out the truth sometimes ybbor Nov 2016 #49

Good post. cwydro Nov 2016 #74

Thanks ybbor Nov 2016 #88

I thank you as well. Many Dems have been screaming for years that we have Nay Nov 2016 #94

Preach it! ybbor Nov 2016 #102

Well, said. Captain Stern Nov 2016 #120

it was apparently obvious to those paying close attention on the ground. BREMPRO Nov 2016 #142

Christ.. Kentonio Nov 2016 #220

She didn't have a message? mcar Nov 2016 #182

She would have won if she looked at a fucking electoral map. The math wasn't hard. nt MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #46

And yet another ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #50

Orrrrr....simply showed up in those states. But no, she wasn't arrogant at all. MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #90

Now, now... ybbor Nov 2016 #91

Who exactly comprises the "them" that you're tring to kill? lapucelle Nov 2016 #141

It's a saying for how to treat those who are not treating you very nicely. ybbor Nov 2016 #149

That's a peculiar reading of the idiom. lapucelle Nov 2016 #150

The kill refers to the death of their argument, not them themselves. Kentonio Nov 2016 #221

IT'S JUST A SAYING, AN ADAGE, A SAW, A MAXIM, AN EXPRESSION... Yurovsky Nov 2016 #228

Yet Obama won those states. Exilednight Nov 2016 #201

Yes Lokilooney Nov 2016 #127

Yes, Hillary was totally ignorant of the Electoral College. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #77

Yes, new meme... ybbor Nov 2016 #85

This Kathy M Nov 2016 #125

Some of your remarks are disgustingly patronizing and sexist. lapucelle Nov 2016 #138

Okay... ybbor Nov 2016 #148

Exactly. LisaM Nov 2016 #202

gerrymandering .... Lil Missy Nov 2016 #14

How? FBaggins Nov 2016 #84

I suppose it could play a role in this sense: Garrett78 Nov 2016 #126

1000!!!! As always, Nance, you are spot on!!!! AgadorSparticus Nov 2016 #15

No, she's not. ybbor Nov 2016 #18

Yeah, I am SO sure you're pissed. n/t NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #23

What does that even mean? ybbor Nov 2016 #31

The poster melman Nov 2016 #36

Yeah, that's what I figured ybbor Nov 2016 #37

What is an example radical noodle Nov 2016 #54

Good question ybbor Nov 2016 #58

If you "don't like what THEY do here" ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #60

Are you the board police? melman Nov 2016 #61

Board police? NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #63

lol melman Nov 2016 #64

Did you not abandon DU entirely for a while when you first started losing your popularity? MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #134

I left DU in 2009 ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #157

People have come and gone and come back again for a number of reasons. I did the same thing too.... George II Nov 2016 #180

Been here since 2001. Not the friendliest forum I've seen though, took me a while to actually... MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #185

Well quite honestly the post I responded to wasn't exactly the friendliest either. George II Nov 2016 #188

Interesting Cary Nov 2016 #184

I concur friend... MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #186

I actually go back to around 2004 Cary Nov 2016 #187

Curious posting history, especially since he claims to have been here since 2001 but.... George II Nov 2016 #195

Totally Cary Nov 2016 #196

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #67

Are you implying something? jack_krass Nov 2016 #66

again Skittles Nov 2016 #27

Try reading for comprehension. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #165

Ok sorry ybbor Nov 2016 #167

No, she didn't win the EC ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #168

I apologized, why do you continue to insult me? ybbor Nov 2016 #169

The only people I "insulted" ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #170

You know what? I'm not sorry... ybbor Nov 2016 #175

Again, reading comprehension. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #190

Your premise is deeply flawed. Kentonio Nov 2016 #222

Your reply is deeply flawed ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #230

Uh huh... "No way She will never get my vote..." grossproffit Nov 2016 #204

Oopsie! mcar Nov 2016 #205

I'll tell ya what's an oopsie... ybbor Nov 2016 #229

Nice fishing! I'm not afraid to admit I said it on July 2 ybbor Nov 2016 #210

I've said it before, I'll say it again -- madamesilverspurs Nov 2016 #17

Well, if I ever grow up ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #38

1000. n/t pnwmom Nov 2016 #19

electoral college panbanger Nov 2016 #25

Here's the thing, though -- Nay Nov 2016 #113

Because all our resources were focused on "making history" with our Presidential candidate's gender MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #136

Yes, there was a lot of that sort of feeling; that another historic presidency was Nay Nov 2016 #183

Frankly... JHan Nov 2016 #28

She lost because more people in 30 states voted for Trump and not Clinton. Leontius Nov 2016 #30

Thank you! ybbor Nov 2016 #34

Thank You ! Kathy M Nov 2016 #155

I'm just going to add... JSup Nov 2016 #32

You beat me to it... this cannot be stated often enough!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #57

A lot of that shit was propagated right here on DU; I specifically remember a "bloodbath" post.. MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #139

So now we deny that she lost? Flatpicker Nov 2016 #33

Ah, the inevitable ... NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #40

Nope Flatpicker Nov 2016 #42

She's unable to answer your questions because we are not supposed to ask them ybbor Nov 2016 #44

I don't really fault them for it Flatpicker Nov 2016 #47

As a matter of fact... ybbor Nov 2016 #51

I do melman Nov 2016 #53

I guess you didn't get the memo. NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #59

Once again Flatpicker Nov 2016 #62

I couldn't agree more with you, Flatpicker mtnsnake Nov 2016 #128

KNR Thank you! Lucinda Nov 2016 #35

She won the popular vote by at least 2 million elmac Nov 2016 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author EL34x4 Nov 2016 #68

Good luck with the south bashing there dude. cwydro Nov 2016 #75

But they did chose HRC during the primary elmac Nov 2016 #98

What will be your Madame President's first act in office? MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #146

She "lost" because of King_Klonopin Nov 2016 #41

"she was placed in a no-win situation regarding ..." Martin Eden Nov 2016 #122

Great post! nt ybbor Nov 2016 #133

Perfect radical noodle Nov 2016 #52

That contested primary didn't help. ucrdem Nov 2016 #55

K&R! stonecutter357 Nov 2016 #65

She's winning the popular vote solely because of California. EL34x4 Nov 2016 #69

👎🏻 Auntie Bush Nov 2016 #111

You are, of course, 100 percent correct. earthside Nov 2016 #209

And your point is? JHan Nov 2016 #211

The point is that Hillary lost SpareribSP Nov 2016 #213

Where in my post did you pick up that I am not aware that Hillary lost the presidency? JHan Nov 2016 #214

I'm not saying you're wrong about abolishing the EC SpareribSP Nov 2016 #215

Trump's message would not have resonated in California. JHan Nov 2016 #216

He wouldn't have to win California with no EC SpareribSP Nov 2016 #217

It's not "disingenuous" . You also acknowledge the E.C needs reform JHan Nov 2016 #218

Why on earth would we waste the time and effort? Kentonio Nov 2016 #223

You cannot control what people choose to talk about or concern themselves with.. JHan Nov 2016 #225

When did I say I had any interest in controlling what people choose to talk about? Kentonio Nov 2016 #226

Yes Democrats can focus on message.. JHan Nov 2016 #227

Democrats lost because...... democrank Nov 2016 #70

"And if the answer is always that it's the other person' fault, we'll keep right on losing." MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #145

During the campaign, I was astonished with the negative reaction to some Democrats saying democrank Nov 2016 #151

Hillary lost because she RAN. mtnsnake Nov 2016 #71

Take a look at Kurt Eichenwald's post-mortem when you get a chance. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #79

I have no doubt whatsoever that Trump would have eaten Sanders for breakfast. LisaL Nov 2016 #86

Apparently neither was Clinton Nevernose Nov 2016 #96

Who would be a strong general contender after all the attacks? LisaL Nov 2016 #97

Before the primaries started I said, on DU Nevernose Nov 2016 #99

Oh, man, 1000 to you. I said a similar thing in one of my above posts. We have to Nay Nov 2016 #115

How do we stop the FBI from pulling this shit again? First, there should have already Nay Nov 2016 #116

A contender who doesn't first deny she made a mistake for a full year MadDAsHell Nov 2016 #147

He would have eaten him and then spit him out. Auntie Bush Nov 2016 #112

I agree. liquid diamond Nov 2016 #114

Thanks for the link. That was an interesting read. dawg Nov 2016 #87

That's a great link. Thanks for that. Number23 Nov 2016 #172

... emulatorloo Nov 2016 #192

It would have been a bit strange for her not to run given that she was polling in the 60s StevieM Nov 2016 #199

K&R for reason. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2016 #72

I agree that the country lost. quaker bill Nov 2016 #73

The Republicans won the House, the Senate, and the majority of Governorships and ... dawg Nov 2016 #78

Good point. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #81

Yes, and that's why the Pubs have been able to fuck with the state election Nay Nov 2016 #117

I'm sure they see it, but what can they do? dawg Nov 2016 #119

If it's true that the DNC has no money for state races, even the races that Nay Nov 2016 #121

First of all... kentuck Nov 2016 #92

And people underestimated Trump at every turn. LisaL Nov 2016 #93

Yes, that's called "framing," and George Lakoff has begged the DNC to listen Nay Nov 2016 #118

yes. We need to be better at manipulating the media and framing the argument better Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #156

Try this one on for size tavalon Nov 2016 #95

K AND R GAZILLION niyad Nov 2016 #103

Apparently DU needs more time to grieve! HenryWallace Nov 2016 #104

HRC was the captain of the ship. ZX86 Nov 2016 #109

Is that supposed to make sense? NanceGreggs Nov 2016 #158

What doesn't make sense is ZX86 Nov 2016 #177

Nicely put. Kentonio Nov 2016 #224

She was always very bad choice from the very beginning. cpwm17 Nov 2016 #124

Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #130

Her poll movement history held true... ybbor Nov 2016 #135

Flaming out? nt JTFrog Nov 2016 #137

That's bullshit. ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #140

Come out and say liquid diamond Nov 2016 #143

K and R oasis Nov 2016 #129

When Trump said the election was rigged The Wizard Nov 2016 #131

Well, given that it seemed like.... vi5 Nov 2016 #153

Kick and rec to the power of infinity. ClusterFreak Nov 2016 #154

A hostile foreign power manipulated U.S. public opinion before the vote. VOX Nov 2016 #159

Can't say much more than thank you ... so thank you... ificandream Nov 2016 #160

for what it is worth, this here armchair politician hfojvt Nov 2016 #161

Considering how much OH went for Trump, not sure picking Sherrod Brown would have helped there. LisaL Nov 2016 #162

huh, you may have a point hfojvt Nov 2016 #163

Lose Bear Creek Nov 2016 #164

Jesus there is a lot of bitter vetch on this thread ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #166

I haven't been here in months but are the Sanders folks still screaming that he was the only one Number23 Nov 2016 #171

K&R! DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #174

hillary lost because not all democrats. liberals, and progresives voted for her or didn't vote beachbum bob Nov 2016 #176

I'll take these on point by point. Exilednight Nov 2016 #178

Well said ybbor Nov 2016 #189

Thank you Nance! mcar Nov 2016 #181

This Salon article agrees with you ificandream Nov 2016 #193

I fully agree with your point but technically she didn't win a "majority". tarheelsunc Nov 2016 #194

Well she certainly cleaned house in CA and NY... jmg257 Nov 2016 #198

The Democrats lost this race when Barack Obama decided to be bipartisan and appointed James Comey StevieM Nov 2016 #200

Hillary Lost because of voter fraud - CROSSCHECK run by Kris Kobach eliminating millions womanofthehills Nov 2016 #203

The Dem establishment failed to realize the financial hurt people are feeling ... cliffside Dec 2016 #231

Hillary won by 2.5 milliion and Trump goes to the White House because cheating. Coyotl Dec 2016 #232