2016 Postmortem

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

157. I'll answer your question

Sat Dec 10, 2016, 01:20 PM

Dec 2016

You ask, "Would all that negative coverage have happened and have stuck if Clinton's gender wasn't and hadn't been an underlying rallying point for her attackers over 30 years?"

IMO, some of it would have and some of it wouldn't have.

You invite me to "Quantify away." I wish I could. I don't know of any hard data.

By comparison, take the general statement that Trump voters live in their own reality. We have the recent PPP poll showing that, for example, "67% of Trump voters say that unemployment increased during the Obama
administration, to only 20% who say it decreased." We can talk about whether the media were derelict in reporting the facts, or whether Trump voters simply screened out facts that didn't fit their preconceptions, but at least we have some hard data about that aspect of the vote.

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157 replies

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No You Cant : Why Im Still Crying Over Hillary Clintons Loss. [View all] BainsBane Dec 2016 OP

And never forget. Women are just WhiteTara Dec 2016 #1

So it seems BainsBane Dec 2016 #2

This sheshe2 Dec 2016 #87

Until we stop being 10's lapucelle Dec 2016 #77

Oh trust me, a Pussy is a Pussy WhiteTara Dec 2016 #108

You're probably right. The French have a saying lapucelle Dec 2016 #111

Yep. WhiteTara Dec 2016 #112

I feel let down bravenak Dec 2016 #3

It's been hard BainsBane Dec 2016 #5

I envy you that you are at acceptance. Amimnoch Dec 2016 #23

I've had my moments BainsBane Dec 2016 #38

Acceptance is not the correct word. jack69 Dec 2016 #74

Charles Blow's columns in the new York Times are inspirational!! Look them up! Akamai Dec 2016 #82

You sound like me bravenak Dec 2016 #81

That's a real shame. cwydro Dec 2016 #103

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #137

I am having a hard time handmade34 Dec 2016 #90

I am nowhere near acceptance. lark Dec 2016 #115

Trump is so much worse than Bush BainsBane Dec 2016 #117

I have to totally agree. lark Dec 2016 #119

I was in shock, no one expected this and the fact that people yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #106

I absolutely and truly hate every single person who voted for drumpf. lark Dec 2016 #118

yeh...i am glad I feel safe in yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #120

If it weren't for my parents getting old and frail, I never would have left CA. lark Dec 2016 #128

Yes, I feel the same. More than 50 years fighting this sh*t and it's still has power over us. SharonAnn Dec 2016 #4

What still gets me is that I have NEVER seen a woman in politics spoken to the way he did to her adigal Dec 2016 #6

Yes, it seems both sexes admire powerful men but resent powerful women. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #19

It wasn't the powerful man that they liked. It was the man who talked trash to the Squinch Dec 2016 #20

That anyone would buy into the crazy Pizza story and Clinton death count crap.... bettyellen Dec 2016 #151

Yes, it seems both sexes admire powerful men but resent powerful women. Angry Dragon Dec 2016 #32

Isn't it about time we get over thinking that"going to church" stopbush Dec 2016 #62

There are a few churches jack69 Dec 2016 #70

It is time to call out jack69 Dec 2016 #71

The meaning of Jesus Christ? stopbush Dec 2016 #78

Amen Ligyron Dec 2016 #91

I'm not even a Christian, and I disagree with that. Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #131

Plus 1000 Hekate Dec 2016 #140

Oh wow! Yes to this: Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #7

Men and Women of Color voted for Hillary. Yavin4 Dec 2016 #8

You're relentless with this BainsBane Dec 2016 #10

I'm relentless because it's the truth. Yavin4 Dec 2016 #15

Your claim is the white women's vote decided the election BainsBane Dec 2016 #34

Ironically, if white women had all simply not voted, Hillary would be president progree Dec 2016 #58

That white male statistic really needs to be viewed in comparison to its usual Dem vs Repug number. JudyM Dec 2016 #80

And the white female statistic -- a 9 point, 52-43 margin of Trump over Clinton -- needs to be progree Dec 2016 #92

Some are BainsBane Dec 2016 #95

Your "logic" is baffling. Why would you let white men spooky3 Dec 2016 #54

White women didn't support their own race/gender for president. Instead... Yavin4 Dec 2016 #64

Why do men have any less of an obligation to spooky3 Dec 2016 #67

Why not just direct it to people that voted for Trump whopis01 Dec 2016 #61

Avoiding the truth hurts the cause. Yavin4 Dec 2016 #65

Most of those 51% would likely support a Republican woman for president BainsBane Dec 2016 #96

What are the splits with White women Yavin4 Dec 2016 #99

It wasn't because she was a woman, it was because she was Hillary. SlimJimmy Dec 2016 #121

How about looking at what prompts you to call her BainsBane Dec 2016 #126

Maybe it's not me that needs to look in the mirror. SlimJimmy Dec 2016 #143

What facts? BainsBane Dec 2016 #145

Yes, I read those policy positions. Same old tired stuff. SlimJimmy Dec 2016 #146

So you've bought into the trendy and popular, yet unsupported spins by the McCarthyites as well? LanternWaste Dec 2016 #130

No, I bought into the truth. I watche her campaign. SlimJimmy Dec 2016 #142

she is the most popular woman in the world until mopinko Dec 2016 #9

Excellent point. People are forgetting how popular she was before she ran for president StevieM Dec 2016 #11

Even after her first run BainsBane Dec 2016 #12

That was what I was referring to. HRC finished up as Secretary of State with sky high job approval StevieM Dec 2016 #18

Yes, I remember that. Media cooperated at that time--I remember plenty BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2016 #110

same thing happened when she ran for senate. mopinko Dec 2016 #16

I think we know who to thank for all the negatives about Hillary. leftofcool Dec 2016 #40

honestly, it is a long list. mopinko Dec 2016 #50

The world doesnt much matter quakerboy Dec 2016 #84

true but mopinko Dec 2016 #104

Negative press came first, at a guess quakerboy Dec 2016 #144

the arkansas project came first. mopinko Dec 2016 #149

Yup quakerboy Dec 2016 #152

Retired politicians are popular, including men. NT Eric J in MN Dec 2016 #100

I still cry. A couple times a week. trueblue2007 Dec 2016 #13

This... sheshe2 Dec 2016 #14

remember where hate springs from barbtries Dec 2016 #29

Thanks for this, barbtries. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #30

of course sheshe2 barbtries Dec 2016 #35

YES! MontanaMama Dec 2016 #68

Thank you, BB.. Cha Dec 2016 #17

I honestly haven't had much time to process all the emotions. Starry Messenger Dec 2016 #21

I haven't really cried BainsBane Dec 2016 #41

I love this piece ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #22

i'm still grieving. hillary spent her DesertFlower Dec 2016 #24

I'm still grieving too oldtime dfl_er Dec 2016 #25

I am not a woman but I also took this loss personally Gothmog Dec 2016 #26

. BainsBane Dec 2016 #27

i'm hoping that when we go march in DC on 21 Jan, barbtries Dec 2016 #33

I am the mother of two sons, Gothmog mcar Dec 2016 #57

Thank you. Silver Gaia Dec 2016 #132

Pantsuit Nation has saved me emotionally ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #28

Pantsuit Nation is fantastic BainsBane Dec 2016 #31

Yeah the nonsense that gets posted here is nothing like the reality ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #42

Everytime I look at her I cry and say what could have been. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #36

I will never forget and I will never BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #37

the bar was higher for Hillary than all previous candidates combined Skittles Dec 2016 #39

I still cry . . . a little every day. I just can't believe that people I know voted for that orange Liberal In Red State Dec 2016 #43

Thank you, BB. brer cat Dec 2016 #44

Male, here. And this post hits me hard. byronius Dec 2016 #45

I have not cried much since the first week, because I have no one to cry with. I'll try the 101... Hekate Dec 2016 #46

Thank you for sharing this, Hekate. pnwmom Dec 2016 #49

I have similar stories. Almost all the women I have known have told me of abuse and demigoddess Dec 2016 #53

I think of the second debate BainsBane Dec 2016 #98

K&R tallahasseedem Dec 2016 #47

Yes. Because it means that even the most despicable, least qualified, vilest pnwmom Dec 2016 #48

How come other countries can have female leaders, but not us? Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #51

The loss will never be regained; the injury will never heal. NBachers Dec 2016 #52

It hits me like that too mcar Dec 2016 #55

There certainly was sexism and misogyny tenisfin Dec 2016 #56

It has been said that depression is anger turned inward. apcalc Dec 2016 #59

And yet, the fascist-elect won with the votes of a lot of Republican women??? RiverStone Dec 2016 #60

I know there are women in my family who voted for him who are manipulated by FOX News. SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2016 #69

any Woman? rtracey Dec 2016 #94

Thank you for this thread fallrey Dec 2016 #63

It really has BainsBane Dec 2016 #86

How many men out there never grew up? SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2016 #66

a heartsick k and r for the truth. niyad Dec 2016 #72

I haven't fully processed everything. JHan Dec 2016 #73

... shenmue Dec 2016 #75

The glass ceiling is now a titanium lid. A big Russian bear sitting on top robbedvoter Dec 2016 #76

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #79

That's a pretty heavy decision to make when you're feeling the raw emotions of a tough election. JudyM Dec 2016 #83

. BainsBane Dec 2016 #88

I am so stunned that this happened... 3catwoman3 Dec 2016 #85

I know the feeling. Took me 1 week to squeeze a few tears robbedvoter Dec 2016 #89

I am not rtracey Dec 2016 #93

I empathize with feeling jimlup Dec 2016 #97

As much as you believe the feelings of thousands, millions of women are wrong BainsBane Dec 2016 #102

Good lord Kolesar Dec 2016 #107

Didn't claim to be jimlup Dec 2016 #109

Your views and experience differ from those of the BainsBane Dec 2016 #124

I agree that gender and race jimlup Dec 2016 #125

So Teachout and Feingold as well as polls indicating terrorism and immigration don't matter? bettyellen Dec 2016 #129

Stay strong! sfwriter Dec 2016 #101

I'm sorry she lost BainsBane GummyBearz Dec 2016 #105

I was happy about my candidate's win. BainsBane Dec 2016 #114

I think you misread my post GummyBearz Dec 2016 #134

Really? I would take a primary loss to this one a million times over kcr Dec 2016 #116

That's something, isn't it? BainsBane Dec 2016 #122

I didn't say any of that GummyBearz Dec 2016 #135

Re: Concerning Men StarzGuy Dec 2016 #113

I don't think sexism and misogyny BainsBane Dec 2016 #123

That's how I feel...like I was slapped in the face. lunamagica Dec 2016 #127

Agreed, but the pioneers pay the price so that their successors will kick the barriers down. CBHagman Dec 2016 #133

Are there any hard data about the impact of the candidates' genders? Jim Lane Dec 2016 #136

That you equate Clinton's email BainsBane Dec 2016 #138

I absolutely do not equate them. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #139

Sorry Jim Lane but you do argue a false equivalency fallrey Dec 2016 #141

Very true BainsBane Dec 2016 #148

The key question is how many votes were SHIFTED. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #150

I think you are discounting the effect of the media handling of Clinton's campaign fallrey Dec 2016 #154

I feel frustrated that again words are being put in my mouth (keyboard) Jim Lane Dec 2016 #155

Last reply on this fallrey Dec 2016 #156

I'll answer your question Jim Lane Dec 2016 #157

I didn't say you wanted to abandon aboriton rights BainsBane Dec 2016 #147

On the night of the election frazzled Dec 2016 #153