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2016 Postmortem

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mtnsnake

(22,236 posts)
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 12:49 PM Dec 2016

It should be no shock to anyone if the Electoral College elects someone other than Trump [View all]

In fact, with circumstances as they are, it should be EXPECTED of them to elect someone else.

One of the main reasons that the Founding Fathers set up the Electoral College was to make sure that the country didn't fall into the hands of anyone who was unqualified to hold the office of president or to anyone who has shown signs of acting like a tyrant, regardless of whether or not that person won the popular vote of that any particular state. IOW, the electors of each state have the power to override the popular vote of that state if the elector feels the winner of that state is unworthy to hold the office of president, right?

In regards to the election process, here is what Alexander Hamilton had to say about it in the Federalist Papers:

Snip:

"All these advantages will happily combine in the plan devised by the convention; which is, that the people of each State shall choose a number of persons as electors, equal to the number of senators and representatives of such State in the national government, who shall assemble within the State, and vote for some fit person as President. Their votes, thus given, are to be transmitted to the seat of the national government, and the person who may happen to have a majority of the whole number of votes will be the President. But as a majority of the votes might not always happen to centre in one man, and as it might be unsafe to permit less than a majority to be conclusive, it is provided that, in such a contingency, the House of Representatives shall select out of the candidates who shall have the five highest number of votes, the man who in their opinion may be best qualified for the office.

The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States. It will not be too strong to say, that there will be a constant probability of seeing the station filled by characters pre-eminent for ability and virtue. And this will be thought no inconsiderable recommendation of the Constitution, by those who are able to estimate the share which the executive in every government must necessarily have in its good or ill administration. Though we cannot acquiesce in the political heresy of the poet who says: "For forms of government let fools contest That which is best administered is best," yet we may safely pronounce, that the true test of a good government is its aptitude and tendency to produce a good administration."

https://www.congress.gov/resources/display/content/The+Federalist+Papers#TheFederalistPapers-68

So....it seems that one of the primary reasons the Electoral College was formed was to prevent irrational people like Donald Trump from ever setting foot in the White House, was it not? So how about it, electors? This is your chance to do what you are supposed to do.

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I will be shocked. As will the rest of the country. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #1
They're going to elect Trump. Skinner Dec 2016 #2
I would be surprised, but it SHOULD be no shock if they didn't elect him mtnsnake Dec 2016 #9
I would bet most of them don't even know a history of the electoral college pangaia Dec 2016 #101
Must we always be pessimistic.. whathehell Dec 2016 #27
It's not pessimism SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #29
Wrong whathehell Dec 2016 #35
Would not be the first shocking thing about this election. Cracklin Charlie Dec 2016 #64
That's the sort of shock MFM008 Dec 2016 #65
The only legitimate alternative is Hillary Clinton. duffyduff Dec 2016 #99
Yesterday it was reported that there are 20 likely to vote against flamingdem Dec 2016 #3
Some may have already decided Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #10
Keeping mum would be the smarter thing to do. whathehell Dec 2016 #40
Ha! Wouldn't that be ironic? The "shy electoral voter" trumping the "shy Trump voter"! nt jonno99 Dec 2016 #41
Yeah, I saw that thread here yesterday, and that gives some reason for hope. nt mtnsnake Dec 2016 #12
Just heard it is now up to 39 CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #19
Thirty Nine!! whathehell Dec 2016 #42
oh yay flamingdem Dec 2016 #45
do you have a link? 39 would be awesome. yodermon Dec 2016 #47
No link to the 39 figure CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #50
ok thx yodermon Dec 2016 #52
39 republican electors?? triron Dec 2016 #60
Apparently half of them are Republicans CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #63
On "The View" CountAllVotes Dec 2016 #49
Any Rs among those 39? If not, it means nothing. stopbush Dec 2016 #53
Of course there are few or none. duffyduff Dec 2016 #94
Please: source triron Dec 2016 #59
You're confusing those who are demanding to see the intelligence on Russian hacking with Dream Girl Dec 2016 #88
Yep. The EC is going to vote Trump. duffyduff Dec 2016 #95
Yeah.... but bpositive Dec 2016 #4
It would be shocking ... ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #5
It's either Trump or Clinton Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #7
It depends on who the faithless electors SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #11
But those are the only people who will become president Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #16
Once it gets to the House SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #17
The public always has a say Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #21
Violent revolution? SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #24
That's the history of our country Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #37
The "public" cast more votes for Trump than they did for all Repub house candidates combined onenote Dec 2016 #30
OK there is no such thing ... ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #39
bureaucratic defeatism Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #44
OK then. ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #48
People think the election is out of our hands just because it's in the proceedings of the Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #51
Constitutionally it is out of our hands now n/t SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #70
Thank you. whathehell Dec 2016 #43
Unfortunately, I highly doubt they'd vote for anyone but a Republican. nt mtnsnake Dec 2016 #14
Even another Republican would be a huge improvement whathehell Dec 2016 #33
He/She would be illegitimate. I personally would NOT accept that individual as a president. duffyduff Dec 2016 #76
I don't accept Trump, "legitimate" or not. n/t whathehell Dec 2016 #78
Don't care if you do. Most of the Trump voters don't accept Clinton. duffyduff Dec 2016 #92
No? Well, guess what? I could have said the same to you whathehell Dec 2016 #96
Honestly, I don't see it being either one ... ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #34
Hillary Clinton is the popular vote winner. Your claim she is disliked and not trusted is nonsense. duffyduff Dec 2016 #77
Best case scenario (which ISN'T going to happen) Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #100
it'll be as big a shock as Trump being PEOTUS in the first place Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #6
Most electors are low-level party apparatchiks. Girard442 Dec 2016 #8
The thing is, there are more than a few Repubs who do not like Trump either mtnsnake Dec 2016 #20
Electors -- earn your pay! immoderate Dec 2016 #13
Exactly. mtnsnake Dec 2016 #15
As far as I can determine, they aren't paid anything for their electoral college work. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #22
Technicality. They know what it means. immoderate Dec 2016 #28
What do they get paid? nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #25
The thanks of the American people. immoderate Dec 2016 #31
Then they are about to earn their pay. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #38
Collecting is not earning. immoderate Dec 2016 #46
Correct. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #57
Yes. That was a charge to not be a rubber stamp. It was, however, hyperbolic, immoderate Dec 2016 #69
Update: Actually ELECTORS ARE PAID! immoderate Dec 2016 #72
I would be shocked. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #18
Surely it WOULD shock a lot of people, but it SHOULD not shock anyone mtnsnake Dec 2016 #32
If often shocks me when something that should happen actually does. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #66
It would shock me DFW Dec 2016 #23
Actually it will be an enormous shock if it happens onenote Dec 2016 #26
Yes, historically speaking it appears to be against all odds of happening, but mtnsnake Dec 2016 #56
While I'm not a fan of amateur internet psychoanalysis onenote Dec 2016 #71
Ridiculous. Kotya Dec 2016 #36
I hope but I'm not optimistic. jalan48 Dec 2016 #54
This is nonsense jzodda Dec 2016 #55
Let them. The military would be happy to engage flamingdem Dec 2016 #68
that is a terrible reason to not do it JustinL Dec 2016 #80
Why on earth would you ever let those assholes push you around? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #81
Unfortunately for me one of them is my boss jzodda Dec 2016 #90
since it's never happened in our history NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #58
When in our history has the EC had to consider voting for someone as unfit & unqualified as Trump? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #62
The founding fathers also set up the EC to ensure overrepresentation of slave states onenote Dec 2016 #89
In this case they are the last firewall to avert a coup. nt Snotcicles Dec 2016 #61
I'll believe it when I see it. Pacifist Patriot Dec 2016 #67
Ha Ha Coyotl Dec 2016 #73
It would be EXTREMELY shocking to see 538 people try to decide the will of the entire country. jmg257 Dec 2016 #74
It won't work. The person would be illegitimate. duffyduff Dec 2016 #75
How would an electoral college vote be illegitimate? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #79
It IS illegitimate to invalidate the votes of 130 MILLION people. duffyduff Dec 2016 #93
Try telling that to the Founding Fathers. nt mtnsnake Dec 2016 #97
If a third candidate were to be elected SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #82
If the Electoral College fails to produce a majority winner, then the House would choose mtnsnake Dec 2016 #83
Agree 100% SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #84
No shock at all, but... RealityChik Dec 2016 #85
May I suggest HRC? triron Dec 2016 #86
I'm skeptical, but I hope so! Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #87
Not acceptable. EVER. duffyduff Dec 2016 #91
Unfortunately for you, me, & everyone else here, those "fuckers" don't need our approval mtnsnake Dec 2016 #98
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