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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: A word of advice about controlling the Democratic Party message [View all]Gothmog
(154,595 posts)52. Again, you are wrong
I would strongly urge you to actually go out into the real world and work on a campaign or a party. Here are some facts for you to ignore Pushing the crazy claim that the DNC fixed the nomination process hurt the Clinton campaign. That claim was false http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of the people. This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the partys nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldnt figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....
According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And thats what happenedjust a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandistsworking through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emailsMay 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the primaries were rigged narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didnt change the outcome.) Two other emailsone from April 24 and May 1were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, So much for a traditional presumptive nominee. Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didnt know what the DNCs job actually waswhich he didnt, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.
Bottom line: The scandalous DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clintons, fed into the misinformation.
In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.
I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. This election was winnable but the sanders campaign did a great deal of damage that is the subject of valid commentary
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"Clearly you don't sit down with those you disagree with." Are you referencing the poster?
Eleanors38
Dec 2016
#9
Unfortunately some want to control the Democratic Party message from the outside.
George II
Dec 2016
#7
That is not an accurate gauge of whether a message can resonate with people. Just running and tyring
JCanete
Dec 2016
#10
Winning with our current party is fan-fiction that our leaders keep regurgitating and fawning over.
JCanete
Dec 2016
#23
How can you disagree with my analysis and then say if your campaign resonates, donors will
JCanete
Dec 2016
#21
So, the premise I was responding to was basically "if your ideas are so hot prove it
JCanete
Dec 2016
#40
sad and wrong... your words are the things I was saying were reinforcing my argument. Not that I
JCanete
Dec 2016
#46
now you're basically saying that in the "real world" donors don't give a shit about policy, just
JCanete
Dec 2016
#55
Where I agree with you is that refighting the primary is pointless, and that energy spent
JCanete
Dec 2016
#27
That recurring theme about rhetoric versus policy--excuse me for being cute--is rhetoric.
JCanete
Dec 2016
#41
but that is nothing compared to the megaphone that went out over the corporate media from
JCanete
Dec 2016
#47
okay, I see, you're not responding to what I'm posting, just to a preconceived notion you already
JCanete
Dec 2016
#54
Except that I didn't say populist rhetoric was good just cuz it feels good to hear it.
JCanete
Dec 2016
#48
Well that's not exactly fair. He's a Presidential Candidate. He could have said "this is the only
JCanete
Dec 2016
#50
Another way is for everyone to call their Democratic congressmen, lots of them, and OFTEN
mtnsnake
Dec 2016
#20
Do you honestly think that tons of people here are going to follow your advice
mtnsnake
Dec 2016
#30
I would encourage those that aren't the type to run to still get involved and proactively seek good
think
Dec 2016
#25
A grad student I talked with today told me my generation was at fault.
redstatebluegirl
Dec 2016
#29