2016 Postmortem

Willie Pep

(841 posts)

92. It is hard to say.

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 12:43 AM

Dec 2016

One thing I do think is that the oppo research on Bernie may not have been as devastating as people think. Clinton did a lot of opp research on Trump and revealed a lot of nasty things about him and he still won. "Pussygate" was supposed to have been the knockout blow but Trump recovered and won. This was an anti-establishment election for many people and Bernie was perceived as an outsider and honest. I think Bernie would have done better than Clinton in the Rust Belt but worse in the South which we lost anyway.

I think the typical Beltway insider view of running a political campaign needs to be reviewed and questioned. Not only have we lost the presidency but we are getting our butts kicked in Congress and at the state level. Something has to change.

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Just for the sake of discussion what if Bernie was nominated? [View all] Freeman0311 Dec 2016 OP

All due respect oldtime dfl_er Dec 2016 #1

? Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #10

No we can't. WhiteTara Dec 2016 #57

Please just stop. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #2

Bernie would have come in a distant third behind Bloomberg and Trump. n/t duffyduff Dec 2016 #3

Seriously doubt it. sfwriter Dec 2016 #7

Yes we can do it Dec 2016 #9

If jehop61 Dec 2016 #4

Seriously? Come on. Not useful. MANative Dec 2016 #5

Yup... we would. sfwriter Dec 2016 #6

No we wouldn't be talking about Russians etc. elleng Dec 2016 #8

The idea that the Hillary campaign Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #34

You may disagree, It is NOT a lie. elleng Dec 2016 #41

I didn't mean anyone here lied...thus insulted no one... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #50

OK, Thanks. Sounded like you accused me of lying. elleng Dec 2016 #51

I did not accuse you or anyone of lying...and have edited the post to make sure that is clear. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #55

Really? Why did Russ Feingold and Zypher Teachout lose? Why did every Democrat still_one Dec 2016 #97

You will never ever get an answer to that question emulatorloo Dec 2016 #129

So is it that the Presidential ticket can or can't affect down ballot votes? Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #147

Ah, so that's why Scott walker won multiple times, Paul Ryan, and Johnson, its all Hillary's and still_one Dec 2016 #151

+1 Kathy M Dec 2016 #161

Well, we would have won Oregon ucrdem Dec 2016 #11

There's no way of knowing. JHan Dec 2016 #12

Same silly one liner, based on no concrete evidence, pure conjecture. JudyM Dec 2016 #13

It's actually not silly: JHan Dec 2016 #15

The "ammo" on him was minimal. JudyM Dec 2016 #16

In your assessment it's minimal.. JHan Dec 2016 #17

He'd be the most hated man in America right now. ucrdem Dec 2016 #18

I'm not so sure, hard to say.. JHan Dec 2016 #24

Dems Would Hate Him For Knocking Out A SURE Win??? SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #36

Yeah I covered that a couple replies back . JHan Dec 2016 #43

Clinton won on Nov. 8 by 2.8 million votes. ucrdem Dec 2016 #44

Knocking out a sure win? You do realize it wasn't a sure thing, especially based on the results. Exilednight Dec 2016 #154

Ok, what *actual evidence* do you have that the opp research on him "was substantial?" JudyM Dec 2016 #21

Kurt covered this: JHan Dec 2016 #25

Really? This again? This is all so minimal in comparison to the final candidates. JudyM Dec 2016 #26

Trump probably would have gone for the real estate angle ucrdem Dec 2016 #28

Still all pales in comparison to the others' issues, not to mention completely offset by far greater JudyM Dec 2016 #30

Not really. Trump wins on likeablity. He's been on TV for years. ucrdem Dec 2016 #40

Actually, Bernie was not liked by most Democrats leftofcool Dec 2016 #93

They would have voted for him. Exilednight Dec 2016 #155

You and I looking past prior foibles and the chinks in Bernie's armor.. JHan Dec 2016 #31

Don't forget that the GOP has no problem radical noodle Dec 2016 #81

Again, pure conjecture. There were actual problems with Clinton's actions, these were not fabricated JudyM Dec 2016 #83

Most of the stuff was made up radical noodle Dec 2016 #86

Personally, I believe the email thing, and the DNC's underhandedness in throwing the primary JudyM Dec 2016 #89

I do too ..... Kathy M Dec 2016 #162

What is pure conjecture is conjecturing his candidacy in a general. boston bean Dec 2016 #99

Not only all of what you posted... LenaBaby61 Dec 2016 #60

Thanks.. JHan Dec 2016 #66

Looks to me Kurt got all this secret opposition research file from DU. Not repigs. LOL Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #96

I joined DU In September.. JHan Dec 2016 #114

Non of this made the light of day? Bullshit. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #126

Yeah point me to a single mainstream publication that had this all over their frontpages. JHan Dec 2016 #127

Yeah, at least you admit the smears surfacing on cable are part of her campaign strategy Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #158

lol..... JHan Dec 2016 #159

And around and around we go. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #160

Uhm.. JHan Dec 2016 #164

The Castro/Cuba stuff, the Sandanista stuff, the socialism stuff, the rape letter, the . . . brush Dec 2016 #94

Thanks brush, JHan Dec 2016 #115

Yeah. Each time those splits in our ranks have hurt us brush Dec 2016 #116

some Liberals don't have a clue.. JHan Dec 2016 #118

Agree, JHan. susanna Dec 2016 #109

For You JHan otohara Dec 2016 #143

He was not like well enough to win a primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #35

no, the ammo on him was huge. just because Clinton didn't take the cheap shots La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #54

Ok, more supposition. Mere conjecture. JudyM Dec 2016 #67

Except reporters have seen some of this ammo La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #70

Oh, really. JudyM Dec 2016 #72

Yes, really. Eichenwald reported on it. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #74

Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek personally viewed the "ammo" and said it was major. pnwmom Dec 2016 #104

Sorry, the Clinton campaign did vet and hit him. TDale313 Dec 2016 #33

There is way more oppo on Benie and the GOP wanted him for a reason. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #37

This is all so laughable. The college thing, really!? JudyM Dec 2016 #75

This isn't an attack on Sanders from me, it's about baggage and how Repubs would frame their attacks JHan Dec 2016 #119

No doubt, the same idiots who used "Goldwater Girl" as a hit on Clinton LanternWaste Dec 2016 #121

Careful, you're messing with that party line. JudyM Dec 2016 #76

How Bout This Evidence: Today From Mother Jones otohara Dec 2016 #141

He would have won because more Dems would have come out to vote and independents would have JudyM Dec 2016 #14

ah, that is why Russ Feingold lost, and every Democrat running for Senate in a swing still_one Dec 2016 #98

We couldn't have been any worse off than now. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #19

Hillary won the popular vote by 2+ points. ucrdem Dec 2016 #20

maybe so, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #22

I suspect that we could still be speaking of wikileaks and the Russians karynnj Dec 2016 #23

She's going to run in 2020.. JHan Dec 2016 #27

Agreed Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #53

Those that dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it. RegexReader Dec 2016 #29

Well said Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #38

See my post 46 Hekate Dec 2016 #47

Goosetep...funny way to describe a primary win that can only be described as massive. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #42

"Goose step off to the coronation of Hillary"? Are you sure you and your applauders .... Hekate Dec 2016 #46

I'd pretend that to be the case as well LanternWaste Dec 2016 #122

It is past time for folks to stop hinting that Bernie would have won the election...he wouldn't Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #32

There is no proof of cheating in WI. Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #148

Actually there is an indication that there was cheating... the article is posted here. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #166

We'd all be here talking about ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #39

Oh stop it, Freeman0311 Hekate Dec 2016 #45

Welcome to DU... SidDithers Dec 2016 #48

I hope they enjoy their stay Hekate Dec 2016 #49

no because he is magical. so there would be nothing mean in his emails La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #52

Do you think the OP is getting enough of the reaction he wanted? Hekate Dec 2016 #61

who the fuck knows what people here want anymore. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #64

I know Hekate Dec 2016 #68

Hmm Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #69

i didn't know about the amber alert thing. JI7 Dec 2016 #91

? Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #56

millions on twitter did. and given she lost by about 80,000 votes, i'd say yes. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #58

Nope WhiteTara Dec 2016 #59

Voting patterns would be different HassleCat Dec 2016 #62

He would have been destroyed NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #63

How could we possibly know meadowlark5 Dec 2016 #65

Bernie would have won easily and handily ram2016 Dec 2016 #71

No, he wouldn't have. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #112

Trump voters thought he had integrity? Never heard anyone claim that before. bettyellen Dec 2016 #142

I don't know if it was "no question" BREMPRO Dec 2016 #165

How about we nominate him for 2020 and find out what would happen! Joe941 Dec 2016 #73

Comey, Voter suppression, Russia... !!!! IT WOULD APPLY TO BERNIE ALSO !!! These Questions act as uponit7771 Dec 2016 #77

Um. There would have been no Comey. JudyM Dec 2016 #78

Yeah, right... cause they could not just make some shit up hunh?! REALLY?! Come on people uponit7771 Dec 2016 #79

Ha! No, there was no investigation because there was nothing he did to warrant it. JudyM Dec 2016 #80

Again, they would NOT have just made some shit up!? Comey is a fuckin traitor and it doesn't matter uponit7771 Dec 2016 #82

That is conjecture, again, as opposed to actual investigation into a deeply problematic history. JudyM Dec 2016 #84

Comey being a traitor isn't conjecture, again... no wonder the rest of the DNC isn't up in arms uponit7771 Dec 2016 #88

This doesn't even make sense in relation to what I wrote. JudyM Dec 2016 #90

"deeply problematic history". Your own quote R B Garr Dec 2016 #163

So I guess we should just STOP running ANY candidates for President BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #108

If dems get into congress and do not put him in jail then yes, don't run any more dem candidates... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #111

He might have won or lost. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #85

Welcome to DU, and enjoy JudyM Dec 2016 #87

It is hard to say. Willie Pep Dec 2016 #92

The Russians aren't afraid of Bernie Sanders. LisaM Dec 2016 #95

But they also wouldn't want him for Pres. They wanted DT, period. pnwmom Dec 2016 #103

My point is that they were afraid of Hillary LisaM Dec 2016 #125

My prediction. Devil Child Dec 2016 #100

No, if he were the nominee we'd still be dissecting the ways in which pnwmom Dec 2016 #102

Of course Russians wanted Trump Devil Child Dec 2016 #124

How do you know Russia couldn't have helped DT beat Sanders? pnwmom Dec 2016 #138

Did I say that? Devil Child Dec 2016 #145

And I am saying that you have zero evidence for your opinion. pnwmom Dec 2016 #146

No evidence other than my non-existant crystal ball Devil Child Dec 2016 #150

OF COURSE we would have. Do you honestly think the Russians pnwmom Dec 2016 #101

No one knows how a candidate will perform in a general election RandySF Dec 2016 #105

Of course we'd be talking about the issues jfern Dec 2016 #106

First off, you mean the conditional tense: PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #107

Don't think we would have been as shocked with the Trump victory. Hoyt Dec 2016 #110

Thank you Jamie Mayfield Dec 2016 #139

There would have been a lot of talk about his honeymoon ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #113

TBh I'm tired of it all.. JHan Dec 2016 #117

We'd be talking about how badly he did in the General Election and the lost Senate and House seats. George II Dec 2016 #120

My guess is Trump would have received the popular vote as well as the electoral vote victory. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #123

Just Out This AM - Sanders Would Have Lost in a Landslide otohara Dec 2016 #128

My personal opinion, PRETZEL Dec 2016 #130

He would have lost in a landslide. LexVegas Dec 2016 #131

To answer your question, yes Blue_Tires Dec 2016 #132

Then the discussion would have been how he was going to raise everyone's taxes geek tragedy Dec 2016 #133

Sanders would have lost big time Gothmog Dec 2016 #134

I reflected and the conclusion is that women will never be equal Jamie Mayfield Dec 2016 #135

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #140

He would have dealt with problems constructively. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #136

Nope otohara Dec 2016 #152

Yeah, yeah hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #153

That's all you people liquid diamond Dec 2016 #137

Do you say that to all the other what ifs here from Clinton supporters? Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #149

No. Know why? liquid diamond Dec 2016 #156

Adios Troll - you were way too obvious. LOL n/t seaglass Dec 2016 #144

Bernie probably would've had the better message for the general election. The youth coolbreeze77 Dec 2016 #157