2016 Postmortem

otohara

(24,135 posts)

143. For You JHan

Fri Dec 16, 2016, 01:02 PM

Dec 2016

This came out earlier today.

Bernie Sanders Would Have Lost the Election in a Landslide

Could Bernie Sanders have beaten Donald Trump? I think there's almost no chance of that, but since the topic keeps coming up, I feel like I ought to explain why. I know this won't persuade anyone, but the reason is simple: he's just too liberal.

Here's a chart of every Democratic presidential candidate in the postwar era—plus Bernie Sanders. It shows them from least liberal to most liberal. I used NOMINATE to gauge how liberals senators were; this paper to fill in the governors; and a bit of personal judgment to shift a few candidates around. I'm not pretending I got this perfect, but I think it's in the ballpark. Feel free to move folks around if you like.http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/bernie-sanders-would-have-lost-election-landslide

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Just for the sake of discussion what if Bernie was nominated? [View all] Freeman0311 Dec 2016 OP

All due respect oldtime dfl_er Dec 2016 #1

? Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #10

No we can't. WhiteTara Dec 2016 #57

Please just stop. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #2

Bernie would have come in a distant third behind Bloomberg and Trump. n/t duffyduff Dec 2016 #3

Seriously doubt it. sfwriter Dec 2016 #7

Yes we can do it Dec 2016 #9

If jehop61 Dec 2016 #4

Seriously? Come on. Not useful. MANative Dec 2016 #5

Yup... we would. sfwriter Dec 2016 #6

No we wouldn't be talking about Russians etc. elleng Dec 2016 #8

The idea that the Hillary campaign Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #34

You may disagree, It is NOT a lie. elleng Dec 2016 #41

I didn't mean anyone here lied...thus insulted no one... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #50

OK, Thanks. Sounded like you accused me of lying. elleng Dec 2016 #51

I did not accuse you or anyone of lying...and have edited the post to make sure that is clear. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #55

Really? Why did Russ Feingold and Zypher Teachout lose? Why did every Democrat still_one Dec 2016 #97

You will never ever get an answer to that question emulatorloo Dec 2016 #129

So is it that the Presidential ticket can or can't affect down ballot votes? Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #147

Ah, so that's why Scott walker won multiple times, Paul Ryan, and Johnson, its all Hillary's and still_one Dec 2016 #151

+1 Kathy M Dec 2016 #161

Well, we would have won Oregon ucrdem Dec 2016 #11

There's no way of knowing. JHan Dec 2016 #12

Same silly one liner, based on no concrete evidence, pure conjecture. JudyM Dec 2016 #13

It's actually not silly: JHan Dec 2016 #15

The "ammo" on him was minimal. JudyM Dec 2016 #16

In your assessment it's minimal.. JHan Dec 2016 #17

He'd be the most hated man in America right now. ucrdem Dec 2016 #18

I'm not so sure, hard to say.. JHan Dec 2016 #24

Dems Would Hate Him For Knocking Out A SURE Win??? SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #36

Yeah I covered that a couple replies back . JHan Dec 2016 #43

Clinton won on Nov. 8 by 2.8 million votes. ucrdem Dec 2016 #44

Knocking out a sure win? You do realize it wasn't a sure thing, especially based on the results. Exilednight Dec 2016 #154

Ok, what *actual evidence* do you have that the opp research on him "was substantial?" JudyM Dec 2016 #21

Kurt covered this: JHan Dec 2016 #25

Really? This again? This is all so minimal in comparison to the final candidates. JudyM Dec 2016 #26

Trump probably would have gone for the real estate angle ucrdem Dec 2016 #28

Still all pales in comparison to the others' issues, not to mention completely offset by far greater JudyM Dec 2016 #30

Not really. Trump wins on likeablity. He's been on TV for years. ucrdem Dec 2016 #40

Actually, Bernie was not liked by most Democrats leftofcool Dec 2016 #93

They would have voted for him. Exilednight Dec 2016 #155

You and I looking past prior foibles and the chinks in Bernie's armor.. JHan Dec 2016 #31

Don't forget that the GOP has no problem radical noodle Dec 2016 #81

Again, pure conjecture. There were actual problems with Clinton's actions, these were not fabricated JudyM Dec 2016 #83

Most of the stuff was made up radical noodle Dec 2016 #86

Personally, I believe the email thing, and the DNC's underhandedness in throwing the primary JudyM Dec 2016 #89

I do too ..... Kathy M Dec 2016 #162

What is pure conjecture is conjecturing his candidacy in a general. boston bean Dec 2016 #99

Not only all of what you posted... LenaBaby61 Dec 2016 #60

Thanks.. JHan Dec 2016 #66

Looks to me Kurt got all this secret opposition research file from DU. Not repigs. LOL Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #96

I joined DU In September.. JHan Dec 2016 #114

Non of this made the light of day? Bullshit. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #126

Yeah point me to a single mainstream publication that had this all over their frontpages. JHan Dec 2016 #127

Yeah, at least you admit the smears surfacing on cable are part of her campaign strategy Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #158

lol..... JHan Dec 2016 #159

And around and around we go. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #160

Uhm.. JHan Dec 2016 #164

The Castro/Cuba stuff, the Sandanista stuff, the socialism stuff, the rape letter, the . . . brush Dec 2016 #94

Thanks brush, JHan Dec 2016 #115

Yeah. Each time those splits in our ranks have hurt us brush Dec 2016 #116

some Liberals don't have a clue.. JHan Dec 2016 #118

Agree, JHan. susanna Dec 2016 #109

For You JHan otohara Dec 2016 #143

He was not like well enough to win a primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #35

no, the ammo on him was huge. just because Clinton didn't take the cheap shots La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #54

Ok, more supposition. Mere conjecture. JudyM Dec 2016 #67

Except reporters have seen some of this ammo La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #70

Oh, really. JudyM Dec 2016 #72

Yes, really. Eichenwald reported on it. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #74

Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek personally viewed the "ammo" and said it was major. pnwmom Dec 2016 #104

Sorry, the Clinton campaign did vet and hit him. TDale313 Dec 2016 #33

There is way more oppo on Benie and the GOP wanted him for a reason. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #37

This is all so laughable. The college thing, really!? JudyM Dec 2016 #75

This isn't an attack on Sanders from me, it's about baggage and how Repubs would frame their attacks JHan Dec 2016 #119

No doubt, the same idiots who used "Goldwater Girl" as a hit on Clinton LanternWaste Dec 2016 #121

Careful, you're messing with that party line. JudyM Dec 2016 #76

How Bout This Evidence: Today From Mother Jones otohara Dec 2016 #141

He would have won because more Dems would have come out to vote and independents would have JudyM Dec 2016 #14

ah, that is why Russ Feingold lost, and every Democrat running for Senate in a swing still_one Dec 2016 #98

We couldn't have been any worse off than now. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #19

Hillary won the popular vote by 2+ points. ucrdem Dec 2016 #20

maybe so, TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #22

I suspect that we could still be speaking of wikileaks and the Russians karynnj Dec 2016 #23

She's going to run in 2020.. JHan Dec 2016 #27

Agreed Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #53

Those that dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it. RegexReader Dec 2016 #29

Well said Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #38

See my post 46 Hekate Dec 2016 #47

Goosetep...funny way to describe a primary win that can only be described as massive. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #42

"Goose step off to the coronation of Hillary"? Are you sure you and your applauders .... Hekate Dec 2016 #46

I'd pretend that to be the case as well LanternWaste Dec 2016 #122

It is past time for folks to stop hinting that Bernie would have won the election...he wouldn't Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #32

There is no proof of cheating in WI. Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #148

Actually there is an indication that there was cheating... the article is posted here. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #166

We'd all be here talking about ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #39

Oh stop it, Freeman0311 Hekate Dec 2016 #45

Welcome to DU... SidDithers Dec 2016 #48

I hope they enjoy their stay Hekate Dec 2016 #49

no because he is magical. so there would be nothing mean in his emails La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #52

Do you think the OP is getting enough of the reaction he wanted? Hekate Dec 2016 #61

who the fuck knows what people here want anymore. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #64

I know Hekate Dec 2016 #68

Hmm Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #69

i didn't know about the amber alert thing. JI7 Dec 2016 #91

? Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #56

millions on twitter did. and given she lost by about 80,000 votes, i'd say yes. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #58

Nope WhiteTara Dec 2016 #59

Voting patterns would be different HassleCat Dec 2016 #62

He would have been destroyed NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #63

How could we possibly know meadowlark5 Dec 2016 #65

Bernie would have won easily and handily ram2016 Dec 2016 #71

No, he wouldn't have. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #112

Trump voters thought he had integrity? Never heard anyone claim that before. bettyellen Dec 2016 #142

I don't know if it was "no question" BREMPRO Dec 2016 #165

How about we nominate him for 2020 and find out what would happen! Joe941 Dec 2016 #73

Comey, Voter suppression, Russia... !!!! IT WOULD APPLY TO BERNIE ALSO !!! These Questions act as uponit7771 Dec 2016 #77

Um. There would have been no Comey. JudyM Dec 2016 #78

Yeah, right... cause they could not just make some shit up hunh?! REALLY?! Come on people uponit7771 Dec 2016 #79

Ha! No, there was no investigation because there was nothing he did to warrant it. JudyM Dec 2016 #80

Again, they would NOT have just made some shit up!? Comey is a fuckin traitor and it doesn't matter uponit7771 Dec 2016 #82

That is conjecture, again, as opposed to actual investigation into a deeply problematic history. JudyM Dec 2016 #84

Comey being a traitor isn't conjecture, again... no wonder the rest of the DNC isn't up in arms uponit7771 Dec 2016 #88

This doesn't even make sense in relation to what I wrote. JudyM Dec 2016 #90

"deeply problematic history". Your own quote R B Garr Dec 2016 #163

So I guess we should just STOP running ANY candidates for President BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #108

If dems get into congress and do not put him in jail then yes, don't run any more dem candidates... uponit7771 Dec 2016 #111

He might have won or lost. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #85

Welcome to DU, and enjoy JudyM Dec 2016 #87

It is hard to say. Willie Pep Dec 2016 #92

The Russians aren't afraid of Bernie Sanders. LisaM Dec 2016 #95

But they also wouldn't want him for Pres. They wanted DT, period. pnwmom Dec 2016 #103

My point is that they were afraid of Hillary LisaM Dec 2016 #125

My prediction. Devil Child Dec 2016 #100

No, if he were the nominee we'd still be dissecting the ways in which pnwmom Dec 2016 #102

Of course Russians wanted Trump Devil Child Dec 2016 #124

How do you know Russia couldn't have helped DT beat Sanders? pnwmom Dec 2016 #138

Did I say that? Devil Child Dec 2016 #145

And I am saying that you have zero evidence for your opinion. pnwmom Dec 2016 #146

No evidence other than my non-existant crystal ball Devil Child Dec 2016 #150

OF COURSE we would have. Do you honestly think the Russians pnwmom Dec 2016 #101

No one knows how a candidate will perform in a general election RandySF Dec 2016 #105

Of course we'd be talking about the issues jfern Dec 2016 #106

First off, you mean the conditional tense: PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #107

Don't think we would have been as shocked with the Trump victory. Hoyt Dec 2016 #110

Thank you Jamie Mayfield Dec 2016 #139

There would have been a lot of talk about his honeymoon ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #113

TBh I'm tired of it all.. JHan Dec 2016 #117

We'd be talking about how badly he did in the General Election and the lost Senate and House seats. George II Dec 2016 #120

My guess is Trump would have received the popular vote as well as the electoral vote victory. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #123

Just Out This AM - Sanders Would Have Lost in a Landslide otohara Dec 2016 #128

My personal opinion, PRETZEL Dec 2016 #130

He would have lost in a landslide. LexVegas Dec 2016 #131

To answer your question, yes Blue_Tires Dec 2016 #132

Then the discussion would have been how he was going to raise everyone's taxes geek tragedy Dec 2016 #133

Sanders would have lost big time Gothmog Dec 2016 #134

I reflected and the conclusion is that women will never be equal Jamie Mayfield Dec 2016 #135

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #140

He would have dealt with problems constructively. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #136

Nope otohara Dec 2016 #152

Yeah, yeah hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #153

That's all you people liquid diamond Dec 2016 #137

Do you say that to all the other what ifs here from Clinton supporters? Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #149

No. Know why? liquid diamond Dec 2016 #156

Adios Troll - you were way too obvious. LOL n/t seaglass Dec 2016 #144

Bernie probably would've had the better message for the general election. The youth coolbreeze77 Dec 2016 #157