2016 Postmortem

True Dough

(20,147 posts)

101. Well stated, Ken!

Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:53 AM

Dec 2016

I hope your detractors in this thread took the time to read this post particularly carefully. It undermines their accusations that this is just another Bernie defense trope and also makes clear that a person can actually argue Hillary was both undermined by nefarious opponents AND she could have improved her campaign. Those are not mutually exclusive points of view, as some would have us believe.

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How are the continuing attempts to delegitmize Bernie's campaign NOT "refighting the primaries"? [View all] Ken Burch Dec 2016 OP

It is a response to the Bernie would have won trope bravenak Dec 2016 #1

It definitely is a cycle NWCorona Dec 2016 #22

It will end soon and we will abuse each other over something else bravenak Dec 2016 #24

True NWCorona Dec 2016 #34

I'm sure... tonedevil Dec 2016 #57

Bored? bravenak Dec 2016 #63

Pulling... tonedevil Dec 2016 #67

Interesting bravenak Dec 2016 #69

Recommended. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #2

Blaming other candidates is a lot easier than admitting we lost and asking why without lame excuses realmirage Dec 2016 #3

Here, here! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #78

Rec'd... Hillary is the past, Bernie is the future JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #4

The future of what? grossproffit Dec 2016 #6

Losing against a pervert again if we vote for Hillary again!!!! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #7

You didn't answer the question. grossproffit Dec 2016 #9

I'll make a deal, if you can tell me how Hillary could lose to a PERVERT, .. JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #12

Hillary WON by 3 MILLION votes over Trump. She did not get into the gutter with Trump, and she won Hekate Dec 2016 #42

"I really am tired of arguing the issue with Bernie supporters. It's too much like religion." Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #61

The guy seems to have a thing for spamming this thread with "pervert," all caps Hekate Dec 2016 #65

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #66

Haven't seen a flyswatter in a couple of months Hekate Dec 2016 #71

Blame NAFTA and the DC rule that says you are never to admit a mistake. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #72

What ARE you going on about? Hekate Dec 2016 #80

Do you REALLY want to hear about the Neoliberal disaster? Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #97

Our Party has a serious problem, we have lost statehouses, governorships, House and Senate, and now Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #102

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #149

"She did not get into the gutter with Trump" - Not the gutter, but her campaign was all about him. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Dec 2016 #86

The future of losing Rincewind Dec 2016 #98

While Hillary will never run for president I'd hardly call her the past NWCorona Dec 2016 #26

Right. Relegate women to the dustbin of history WhiteTara Dec 2016 #45

Bernie is 75 years old Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #50

Please stop with the ageism. Thanks! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #83

How about worrying about 2018 first? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #88

I'm worried about EVERY FUCKIN' DAY that Nazi POS will be on office... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #92

Bernie IS the future! And the present, as he leads the fight against the Fuhrer-Elect. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #81

Yep jack_krass Dec 2016 #111

Hm sheshe2 Dec 2016 #5

Because Hillary LOST, against a pervert at that! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #8

I hate to be the one to break this to you but Bernie lost to Hillary. grossproffit Dec 2016 #10

and bernie lost to hillary hugely. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #11

HA! And I'll break it to you: Hillary lost to a pervert. BIGGLY!!! NOT Bernie! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #13

you seem to need to spam this thread with the word PERVERT. KittyWampus Dec 2016 #14

It's more than a little strange. And it's being used to make a pretty idiotic point. Squinch Dec 2016 #16

PERVERT is the best name for Trump. It IS what he IS. Do you have better? JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #27

Benedict Donald. Tinyhands Trump. Mad King Donald of the Golden Tower. Hekate Dec 2016 #82

Or are you saying perversion is not a valid point? Really????? JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #29

This Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #100

Well, I will break it to you as well.... sheshe2 Dec 2016 #15

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #19

Yes, she did. With the help of the FBI, Russia, BoBers, WhiteTara Dec 2016 #48

She lost because James Comey diverted the attention away from the stories pnwmom Dec 2016 #49

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #150

If I was part of those efforts, you'd have a point. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #18

Keep up the good fight Ken, the losers will continue to lose and we will win... JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #20

oh dear God.. stick a pin in it.. JHan Dec 2016 #51

Oh, FFS, Ken NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #17

Hillary never used the most powerful weapon against Trump (PERVERT) WHY!!! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #21

Really? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #52

Are you saying she should have CALLED Trump a "pervert"? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #77

We will never give up until we WIN! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #23

With an attitude like yours, we won't win another election EVER mtnsnake Dec 2016 #25

NO if we let a prevert win without a mention. WE will lose again, again, again JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #30

WTH does that have to do with the OP? mtnsnake Dec 2016 #35

Yeah, because nothing says "unity" ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #62

If a person needs a "good" attitude to vote against an overtly racist person then she's nancegregs.. uponit7771 Dec 2016 #128

I'm not defending anyone's decision not to vote for Hillary. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #40

You keep harping on ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #54

I don't want anyone kowtowed to. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #74

Well stated, Ken! True Dough Dec 2016 #101

Thank you. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #117

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #127

Tell it to the whiners posting how people weren't nice to them. bettyellen Dec 2016 #28

Funny you would say that to a CLINTON volunteer for both, who is tired of losing to a PERVERT!!! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #32

Did you weeelly? Hekate Dec 2016 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #33

You can self-delete that post if you didn't mean to put it there. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #36

Thanks Ken, I just wanted others to know I volunteered for both Hil & Bill JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #38

OK. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #41

WTF? bettyellen Dec 2016 #37

Why is it so important to you to get the TPP off the hook? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #43

Obama was/is oriented toward the Pacific & Asia, which I get, since I come from Hawai'i as well.... Hekate Dec 2016 #73

Thanks for your response...I appreciate your thoughtfulness.but, in negotiating TPP... Ken Burch Dec 2016 #91

Alas, the whiners (on both sides) were right. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #56

I feel you Ken but I think it will be a tit for tat up until the inauguration NWCorona Dec 2016 #31

Y'all this is why we can't have nice things underthematrix Dec 2016 #39

My honest opinion is I have some bad feelings about the primary. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #44

Thank you. That's the best post in this thread so far. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #46

Thank you Ken! hrmjustin Dec 2016 #47

I'm with you justin... but, please, don't count Bernie out. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #85

Thanks, hmrjustin. What you said. Hekate Dec 2016 #155

I'd rather not, JHan Dec 2016 #53

Well said and thank you. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #79

Well, first of all, let's all agree on someone next time mvd Dec 2016 #55

Fair enough. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #76

Why the ageism? Bernie is young at heart and appeals to millennials... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #87

I do not mean it to be. But Bernie would be older than usual and perhaps.. mvd Dec 2016 #89

Fair point... and I would certainly be willing to listen to what other candidates have to say, but not just because they are less older than Bernie. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #90

Agree. My ideal would be someone just as progressive mvd Dec 2016 #93

All good points mvd... we should all be willing to listen to others' views on our side of the aisle. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #94

Thanks. Hope you have a good holiday season mvd Dec 2016 #95

Thanks... same! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #96

Well, you gave it a shot. Javaman Dec 2016 #58

You are expected to admit the error of your ways. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #59

Ha! You got that right. JudyM Dec 2016 #104

Adopt Bernie's Platform Or Perish TaterBake Dec 2016 #60

Holy shit, I thought this threat was sarcastic. LOL. bettyellen Dec 2016 #64

I'm not sure if that post is real. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #75

Welcome to DU, TaterBake! JudyM Dec 2016 #105

Thx TaterBake Dec 2016 #107

You last sentence says it all. You don't get regular people to vote for you by giving $100k speeches jack_krass Dec 2016 #112

Clinton won voters making under 50k/30k and voters concerned about the economy emulatorloo Dec 2016 #132

"Clinton won voters making under 50k/30k" jack_krass Dec 2016 #137

Point to actual polling data that the speeches influenced working class voters. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #151

We're out of time for incrementalism. Orsino Dec 2016 #116

Admirable. But it seems a lot of folks think "unite" should mean... Beartracks Dec 2016 #70

Face the danger. WheelWalker Dec 2016 #84

...Meaning what, exactly?... Ken Burch Dec 2016 #139

"United We Stand; Divided We Fall." Some Bernie supporters insist that we remain divided. baldguy Dec 2016 #99

We temporarily suspended that rule after the election. Skinner Dec 2016 #103

Thanks for reminding people of that. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #119

Bernie got his ass handed to him. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #106

But he didn't lose the general election to Trump like Hillary did mtnsnake Dec 2016 #113

KIck and rec Arazi Dec 2016 #108

Sanders ran a campaign that had no chance of winning in order to hurt the party Gothmog Dec 2016 #109

Sander didn't run to hurt anyone. He ran to win, period. mtnsnake Dec 2016 #115

That claim is simply false -Sanders had no chance of being the nominee Gothmog Dec 2016 #129

Bernie was saying the economic system was rigged, and that corporations control our politics. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #121

Tell that to Trump and the voters who listened to Trump Gothmog Dec 2016 #122

Those delegates were speaking out of frustration, at the end of a very long process. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #123

Were you there? Gothmog Dec 2016 #126

I know people who were there. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #131

That is really funny Gothmog Dec 2016 #135

Stop being insulting. You are not entitled to talk down to me or to anyone else. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #138

I am entitled to use facts and to disagree when your so-called facts do not hold up Gothmog Dec 2016 #140

thank you for posting your firsthand experience zappaman Dec 2016 #145

I was also amused Gothmog Dec 2016 #148

He told the truth about our political establishment azmom Dec 2016 #134

I have met and like Keith Ellison but I do not support his bid for DNC chair Gothmog Dec 2016 #110

That has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #118

Sanders ran a campaign that had no chance of winning in order to hurt the party Gothmog Dec 2016 #125

On the other hand we can't back a person simply BECAUSE he was a Sanders supporter, and... George II Dec 2016 #133

"Wall Shtreet"? So now it's speech impediment jokes? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #141

You should look into the details of the donors, not just the "big numbers". Plus.... George II Dec 2016 #144

I gladly campaigned for Hillary throughout the fall. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #146

Hardly addresses the point, but not unexpected. George II Dec 2016 #154

You accused me of not wanting Hillary to be elected. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #157

Well we know the blue wall would have held with Bernie. Joe941 Dec 2016 #114

as well as it held for feingold? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #124

Or McGinty in Penn/ Gothmog Dec 2016 #130

or teachout in ny state. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #147

There was no one to Feingold's right who'd have done better. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #143

how are continuous posts about how bernie would have won, also not re fighting the primaries? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #120

How is your OP not refighting the primaries? nt pnwmom Dec 2016 #136

Because I'm not arguing that Bernie should have been nominated. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #142

Give me an honest estimate of how many DU'ers are saying that. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #153

I'm not an apologist for Jeff Weaver, and agree entirely with your critique of the man. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #156