2016 Postmortem

Buckeye_Democrat

(15,042 posts)

10. Sanctimonious (self righteousness) isn't welcome, but I still think...

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 03:53 PM

Dec 2016

Democrats need to work harder at framing their policies on moral grounds.

I'm disappointed when I hear candidates like Sanders talking about issues like income inequality in a fact-based manner, but less frequently arguing against it on moral grounds. There's many people in this country who don't see anything wrong with some people becoming super-rich, especially since there's many Republicans who will gladly argue that those people "deserve" and "earned" it.

In the same way that environmentalists argue that businesses avoid "hidden costs" of their pollution and they should be held responsible for it, there's all kinds of other "hidden costs" that USA businesses avoid -- e.g., wanting better educated employees from whom the owners will extract the most benefit, but the employees usually pay for it and get deeply in debt over it.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

133 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Lots of traditionally alienated and disengaged people turned out for Sanders in the primaries [View all] YoungDemCA Dec 2016 OP

PLease Stop Me. Dec 2016 #1

Yes, the election is over. And yet, judging by many of the threads and posts here YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #3

Right, wrong lessons if any 'learned.' elleng Dec 2016 #4

Like placing the blame where it belongs True_Blue Dec 2016 #12

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #17

Sanders got millions of votes, he was not a Nader with 3% of the vote. dionysus Dec 2016 #22

It's Hillary's fault... SidDithers Dec 2016 #82

The art of politics is controlling your environment. Exilednight Dec 2016 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author duffyduff Dec 2016 #15

The truth must hurt. Exilednight Dec 2016 #64

That's Just As Silly As The OP Me. Dec 2016 #89

It can't be that silly considering you have countered any of the points. Exilednight Dec 2016 #93

Actually...I Didn't Counter Any Of The POints Me. Dec 2016 #102

+1,000,000 SOOOOOO sick of these flaming posts. AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #126

! Me. Dec 2016 #127

Progressive politics is not about sanctimonious moralizing. elleng Dec 2016 #2

Sanctimonious (self righteousness) isn't welcome, but I still think... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #10

I don't mind super rich people of they made every penny fair and square, but dionysus Dec 2016 #76

I agree with your points. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #80

His framing is inherently moral, though, as he focuses on hungry children and people working 2-3 JudyM Dec 2016 #84

I didn't say that. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #86

Help me understand this... if we need to have stronger moral grounding, what would be an example? JudyM Dec 2016 #87

Did you read the example that I provided in the first post you... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #88

I did... I'm not seeing a distinction, seems to me that's how he was framing it. JudyM Dec 2016 #90

I don't think many people see income inequality as a problem in itself. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #92

Ok, so the morality argument is that corporations are getting the benefit of education that they are JudyM Dec 2016 #94

I think so, but maybe that's just me. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #97

It wasn't going to be paid by taxpayers... but by a new tax on Wall St speculating. JudyM Dec 2016 #100

I missed it back then too. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #103

Well, yeah, especially since that short term speculating isn't great for our economy. JudyM Dec 2016 #105

I'm going to buy and read Bernie's book too. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #106

Cool, the guy gets beat up around here by a lot of folks who IMO misunderstand the heart depth JudyM Dec 2016 #107

Subscribed! Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #109

"Income inequality", and yet he still refuses to release...... George II Dec 2016 #99

Sanders, in one very rare reference to his religious background did say that his values were what karynnj Jan 2017 #133

in the end they preferred the republican by staying home. now that is "f***ing impressive" msongs Dec 2016 #5

Thank you for this Arazi Dec 2016 #6

The problem with nominating Sanders over Clinton is that mythology Dec 2016 #7

Actually Sanders attracted traditionally nave and unrealistic people. J_William_Ryan Dec 2016 #8

I am not a "nave" or naive and I supported Bernie in the Primary and Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #36

Well said. Thank you (nt). YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #45

"what used to be mainstream Democratic core beliefs." YES. This can't be said enough. dionysus Dec 2016 #91

Yes Break time Dec 2016 #95

Yeah, I remember this young woman in the convention who was yelling and screaming lunamagica Dec 2016 #67

Probably why Bernie always beat Trump in a head-to-head Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #73

She got more votes Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #9

If there had been a fair Primary he might have prevailed. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #46

The incumbent re-election rate was even higher than normal this year. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #52

Give me a fucking break. Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #53

Facts are pesky things sometimes. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #65

Yes, actual facts are pesky things. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #72

Agree. JudyM Dec 2016 #11

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #18

You've really missed it. Too bad. elleng Dec 2016 #20

Democratic voters chose Clinton, why is that so hard to process? nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #13

Whoever Thought That The People That Went To Those HUUUUUUUge Rallys For Sanders OldYallow Dec 2016 #40

As A Former Dean Delegate otohara Dec 2016 #49

I didnt see any of the bending part. Nt dionysus Dec 2016 #110

Sanctimonious morilization is... NCTraveler Dec 2016 #14

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #19

You might not be aware of TOS. Please take a look: JudyM Dec 2016 #23

People get nominated by people voting for them. Starry Messenger Dec 2016 #16

I agree, but this is just going to fan the flames of primary dionysus Dec 2016 #21

Seriously Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #24

So we would have been "smarter" if we had caved into the threats of the BoB's pnwmom Dec 2016 #25

hmm AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #48

Get real. Russia wanted the oligarch -- no way would they have sat on their hands pnwmom Dec 2016 #83

We didn't lose the election, it was stolen by Russia and FBI collusion. lark Dec 2016 #26

Sanders was and still is very impressive. After the primary, he worked hard with Clinton campaign. Sunlei Dec 2016 #27

"If she had picked Sanders as VP..' red dog 1 Dec 2016 #51

I begged, 'emailed into the void'. I think he was considered as VP for a couple days. Sunlei Dec 2016 #58

"too late to cry over spilt milk"?? red dog 1 Dec 2016 #61

According to the wiki about the democratic primary, Bernie won 43%. aidbo Dec 2016 #71

Bernie was the change candidate we needed this time around. jalan48 Dec 2016 #28

+ 1 red dog 1 Dec 2016 #33

+2 Plucketeer Dec 2016 #37

+3 azmom Dec 2016 #77

Voters disagreed. synergie Dec 2016 #98

Yep jack_krass Dec 2016 #122

We had a progressive platform this year : JHan Dec 2016 #29

That's what I want to know bravenak Dec 2016 #32

But, bravenak, brer cat Dec 2016 #96

I know, silly me bravenak Dec 2016 #108

Please stop posting these divisive threads. Auntie Bush Dec 2016 #30

Our Party Needs Repair, Not Unity OldYallow Dec 2016 #47

Bernie couldn't even win the primaries. liquid diamond Dec 2016 #31

Bernie didn't win any primaries??? Plucketeer Dec 2016 #38

And your point is? Where were they on November 8? George II Dec 2016 #34

In a democracy, no candidate is entitled to anyone's vote. (nt) YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #39

No one said that. But your first sentence in the second paragraph was confirmed as true. George II Dec 2016 #50

Donald Trump appreciates your support. Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #54

Enjoy Trump. Some people aren't as privileged as you and will actually suffer n/t kcr Dec 2016 #112

and explain Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #35

"Focus" as in Plucketeer Dec 2016 #41

+1. YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #43

+2 I was a Clinton supporter from the beginning, but... marylandblue Dec 2016 #56

+1 Plucketeer Dec 2016 #79

Trump was an oligarch and admittedly gamed the system as an insider. bettyellen Jan 2017 #131

postmortem AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #42

That's kind of how I thought too marylandblue Dec 2016 #69

YoungDemCA - Sorry, Nothing Was Learned OldYallow Dec 2016 #44

How well would he have done without the Millions of black votes Hillary got? bravenak Dec 2016 #55

How well would Obama have done without all the white votes that he got that Clinton didn't? YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #70

But he actually WON the primary. Bernie did not. bravenak Dec 2016 #75

Bernie Bro arguments make little sense. Charles Bukowski Dec 2016 #57

Just because you vote for someone, doen't mean they inspired you. dionysus Dec 2016 #111

Yes. Plenty of people who realized what was at stake. kcr Dec 2016 #113

Yep. Plenty of people put country before their ego. JTFrog Dec 2016 #114

I agree. red dog 1 Dec 2016 #119

K&R red dog 1 Dec 2016 #59

She might have won with Warren too marylandblue Dec 2016 #63

I agree! red dog 1 Dec 2016 #118

Why didn't they vote for Feingold ? JI7 Dec 2016 #60

It should be about which candidate best represents our values and has the best chance of winning the JudyM Dec 2016 #62

Exactly OldYallow Dec 2016 #74

What you said Bayard Dec 2016 #68

Yeah we should have given him a spot he lost to appease La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #78

Not enough of them... SidDithers Dec 2016 #81

I'm sure those Clinton voters would have shown up for Bernie if they had thrown him the nomination.. SaschaHM Dec 2016 #85

yeah they would have voted for him, if nothing else because of the Supreme Court, but still_one Dec 2016 #101

Please don't confuse me with facts! Binkie The Clown Dec 2016 #104

Your post ignores the fact that most voters turned out and voted for Hillary Clinton.. asuhornets Dec 2016 #115

It took a new kind of candidate to reach new voters. Orsino Dec 2016 #116

They alienated and disengaged themselves. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #117

Fucking impressive! Pat yourself on the back. Here's your trophy: FSogol Dec 2016 #120

The "sanctimonious moralizing" isn't a bug, it's a feature, for some folks. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #121

Even some Democrats like fairy tales. Adrahil Dec 2016 #123

If you say "you're an idiot if you don't vote for me," you are unlikely to win over those who aren't yurbud Dec 2016 #124

I wonder if corporate Democrats ever take that approach with Wall St. or Hollywood donors yurbud Dec 2016 #125

Okay the kinder, gentler answer is, don't believe the horseshit you hear on CNN. ucrdem Dec 2016 #128

Maybe next time Sanders will run a halfway intelligent campaign and actually win? Blue_Tires Jan 2017 #129

REALITY CHECK: The primaries ended back in July CajunBlazer Jan 2017 #130

Sanders attracted more crowd than votes. Lil Missy Jan 2017 #132