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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: In all the "Bernie would have won/No he wouldn't" posts I've read........... [View all]Garrett78
(10,721 posts)205. Logical or not, that's the reality.
I've explained more than once why people choose to be unaffiliated, and numerous studies back me up. You're making inferences that aren't backed up by the facts. For the last time, read the following: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512663884. And follow the links. Numerous studies back me up. They don't support what you've inferred about "independents." Therefore, the premise of your OP is false.
From the above link:
While around four-in-10 voters say theyre independents, very few are actually swing voters. In fact, according to an analysis of voting patterns conducted by Michigan State University political scientist Corwin Smidt, those who identify as independents today are more stable in their support for one or the other party than were strong partisans back in the 1970s. According to Dan Hopkins, a professor of government at the University of Pennsylvania, independents who lean toward the Democrats are less likely to back GOP candidates than are weak Democrats.
On one hand, the growing distance between the two major parties has contributed to a dramatic decrease in the number of true swing voters. Smidt found that low-information voters today are as aware that there are significant differences between the two major parties as well-informed people were in the 1970s, and people who are aware of those differences tend to have more consistent views of the parties candidates. At the same time, says Smidt, many people who vote consistently for one party say theyre independents because they view partisanship as bad and see claiming allegiance to a party as socially unacceptable.
Source: https://www.thenation.com/article/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-independent-voters/
But you should still click on the above link, because in that other thread I provide numerous links to articles on the topic of so-called "independents."
If you misrepresent who "independents" (or unaffiliateds) are, then you won't have a proper appreciation for how to reach them.
As for the 40% who don't vote in presidential elections and 60% who don't vote in mid-term elections, I certainly agree that the Democratic Party must do more to engage the disengaged. Voter suppression accounts for a certain percentage, but many don't take part by choice. Some, of course, are just apolitical. As hard as it is to believe, there are people who don't even know when elections are going on.
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In all the "Bernie would have won/No he wouldn't" posts I've read........... [View all]
socialist_n_TN
Dec 2016
OP
BULL FUCKIN SHIT !!!! COMEY, Voter Suppression and RUSSIA !! This was NOT a Free and Fair election!!
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#2
The suppositions are useless seeing the same thing would've happened to Sanders or JFK or FDR
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#29
lol... that's like saying, "... yes, the ref tripped the kid with the ball but the kid was too slow
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#45
So Sanders didn't have ANYTHING the GOP could've exploited an blown up out of proportion? tia
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#81
I am not sure what Trump University had to do with Clinton fatigue. Please explain.
Gore1FL
Dec 2016
#111
There were two things that Comey could've used that Clinton didn't but I'll leave that to
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#104
So what as long as its a good dynasty? and the majority of America liked the same cause that
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#80
Not relative to the facts, we could have 8 trillion people who voted the GOP would've
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#30
Not if Cross Check took them off registration !! Does anyone know what they were doing!?!?
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#47
Not with the other 2 factors added in, I'm not buying into the guessing games when the facts
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#56
All 3 factors are fact, I'm not buying into the guessing and RWTP like the DNC didn't stand up
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#62
It's hardly ever a free and fair election. Anybody remember when Netanyahu campaigned for Romney?
NWCorona
Dec 2016
#76
They made up something about Clinton Comey would've made up something about Sanders
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#87
Yeap...Not going to put up with FUD memes... I'm proud I'm aware of these ...
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#105
True, but I knew a lot Rw'ers who actually and surprisingly liked Bernie. They actually said they
The Wielding Truth
Dec 2016
#101
Definitely. The Comey thing was her death knell. I always say this nation has a two week memory and
The Wielding Truth
Dec 2016
#142
Yep. These "if wishes were horses" threads are ridiculous. I've trashed the word
Squinch
Dec 2016
#109
Misinformation, lies, voter suppression, and October revelations are all part of GE game.
aikoaiko
Dec 2016
#191
Can you link and quote where a Comey level announcement, Russia hacking DNC and 41,000
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#193
Well, the Comey letter was substantially less severe than his previous statements
aikoaiko
Dec 2016
#194
I don't blame Silver for not knowing Comey's level of treason or not predicting the level
uponit7771
Dec 2016
#200
Nope, I would have expected a large percentage of Clinton voters.........
socialist_n_TN
Dec 2016
#9
Sanders would have had to bring in all the Clinton voters +10 of the non-voters.
lapucelle
Dec 2016
#120
What you say is true, of course, along with several other reasons he could have won.
Ron Green
Dec 2016
#6
We have to back away from corporate welfare so we can call trump's administration out on it, too.
JudyM
Dec 2016
#13
Non-Dems have always crazily said both parties are alike in their self-serving greed. We are losing
JudyM
Dec 2016
#113
Exactly and that's why I liked Bernie. He didn't use his position to get connected to the trough
NWCorona
Dec 2016
#82
As long as people subscribe to nonsense, there will be people to point it out.
Garrett78
Dec 2016
#98
The more important point is that you're misrepresenting who "independents" are.
Garrett78
Dec 2016
#182
I misrepresented nothing. I made a distinct demarcation between "independents"..........
socialist_n_TN
Dec 2016
#184
Exactly. The GOP, despite their dwindling numbers, know to focus on their base to win.
SunSeeker
Dec 2016
#149
Interesting double standard among some DUers - those who assert Sanders would've lost because
JudyM
Dec 2016
#16
And ironically, so are those who supported and ordained Hillary before the primary season
KPN
Dec 2016
#140
Hardly anything was said about Bernie's rape article, comments about Castro, etc.
Garrett78
Dec 2016
#146
As I've written before, anyone who thinks Trump is a populist is batshit crazy.
Garrett78
Dec 2016
#150
She didn't actually. He had no such qualms, he attacked her character, while echoing and
synergie
Dec 2016
#165
So when the claims fall apart based on facts, deliberate dishonesty is the go to?
synergie
Dec 2016
#176
2106 wasn't all about Russia. Socialism isn't scary to those who can define it.
Gore1FL
Dec 2016
#50
Apparently Hillary didn't have Hillary's ability to build a diverse coalition, either.
Gore1FL
Dec 2016
#51
If Clinton/Kaine was the strongest ticket the Democrats could have put together for 2016 then
Gore1FL
Dec 2016
#97
They would have won if James Comey hadn't broken all precedent and official policy
pnwmom
Dec 2016
#100
You're wrong. "Clinton only got the support of 54% of women -- compared to Obama's 55%."
MadDAsHell
Dec 2016
#119
The fact that Zephyr Teachout lost -- in New York -- kinda kills your theory.
SunSeeker
Dec 2016
#125
Bernie might have beat Trump, mostly from more excitement among white millennials.
Buckeye_Democrat
Dec 2016
#107
That "excitement among millenials" never treanslated into votes, otherwise Hillary woulsn't have
lunamagica
Dec 2016
#108
It's probably good they didn't vote more... since Clinton lost them to Trump. n/t
Buckeye_Democrat
Dec 2016
#112
Yeah, I noticed that Bernie did worse in PA and FL compared to MI and WI.
Buckeye_Democrat
Dec 2016
#124
Independent and discouraged voters who weren't ALLOWED to vote..........
socialist_n_TN
Dec 2016
#118
What states? It was Hillary's base, people of color and women, who couldn't vote.
SunSeeker
Dec 2016
#128
Exactly. The pharma reform initiative Bernie pushed in CA lost, while Hillary won by 30 points.
SunSeeker
Dec 2016
#130
You and others have got to let go of this false narrative regarding "independents."
Garrett78
Dec 2016
#135
A lot of these things that have been said, we'll know about soon.......
socialist_n_TN
Dec 2016
#163
And as time went on after March, Sanders was nothing but a hinderence, a deliberate spoiler.
Lil Missy
Dec 2016
#189