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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Why draw a distinction between the working class and the white working class? [View all]Buckeye_Democrat
(15,042 posts)79. Most Americans don't view reparations on the same footing as current problems.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2014/06/02/reparations/
Compare:
I'm personally very disappointed in the education / job training results from whites! Cash payments seem more like a slippery slope to me. Do we later pay all women reparations for ill treatment against their gender? What about people of Irish ancestry? The Chinese who worked on railroads? What about me? One of my ancestors had his farm in PA taken away, after about 50 years of clearing and developing it (no slaves) because a lawyer noticed a paperwork oversight with the county to essentially steal it?
I'm pleased that most Americans believe that slaves should have received reparations after the Civil War. That might sound like a "cop out" to some people, but it was also more cut-and-dry and practical back then.
Just like it would make more sense to pay reparations for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed by the USA for a totally senseless war NOW rather than in 150 years when it's unclear which Iraqis were directly affected by it. (I'm sure that most Americans wouldn't support such reparations, though... maybe not even a majority of African Americans.)
By the way, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that slavery alone (not to mention other racial issues that followed) was detrimental to many African Americans. Even if the uncompensated labor is ignored, there's also the issue that white people could accumulate property while slaves could not. Once there's a piece of paper declaring that people "own" something in this country, like land (limited supply), how are other people going to be on equal footing when they didn't even have an opportunity to acquire those legal contracts? Very few African Americans in rural areas today? It's not exactly a mystery!
The greatest wealth in this country is contract-based. It's STILL happening. Bill Gates? He didn't even create DOS! He bought it from another programmer who wrote it, thereby giving Gates a contract that declared him the "owner" of it. He then appealed to IBM who agreed to use it for their new line of PC's. Gates had a contract with them that declared he still owned the software. Once that money rolled in, he could then hire other MORE TALENTED people to work for him, and they helped him get even richer! On and on. (Gates' father was a contract lawyer.)
Anyway, reparations could also be paid to the very educated and talented people who work today to make the "owners" get rich! It's not nearly on the same level of exploitation as slavery, but it's still exploitation that most people accept as "the way it is" today... when people in about 150 years might think it's an utter outrage.
Compare:
I'm personally very disappointed in the education / job training results from whites! Cash payments seem more like a slippery slope to me. Do we later pay all women reparations for ill treatment against their gender? What about people of Irish ancestry? The Chinese who worked on railroads? What about me? One of my ancestors had his farm in PA taken away, after about 50 years of clearing and developing it (no slaves) because a lawyer noticed a paperwork oversight with the county to essentially steal it?
I'm pleased that most Americans believe that slaves should have received reparations after the Civil War. That might sound like a "cop out" to some people, but it was also more cut-and-dry and practical back then.
Just like it would make more sense to pay reparations for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed by the USA for a totally senseless war NOW rather than in 150 years when it's unclear which Iraqis were directly affected by it. (I'm sure that most Americans wouldn't support such reparations, though... maybe not even a majority of African Americans.)
By the way, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that slavery alone (not to mention other racial issues that followed) was detrimental to many African Americans. Even if the uncompensated labor is ignored, there's also the issue that white people could accumulate property while slaves could not. Once there's a piece of paper declaring that people "own" something in this country, like land (limited supply), how are other people going to be on equal footing when they didn't even have an opportunity to acquire those legal contracts? Very few African Americans in rural areas today? It's not exactly a mystery!
The greatest wealth in this country is contract-based. It's STILL happening. Bill Gates? He didn't even create DOS! He bought it from another programmer who wrote it, thereby giving Gates a contract that declared him the "owner" of it. He then appealed to IBM who agreed to use it for their new line of PC's. Gates had a contract with them that declared he still owned the software. Once that money rolled in, he could then hire other MORE TALENTED people to work for him, and they helped him get even richer! On and on. (Gates' father was a contract lawyer.)
Anyway, reparations could also be paid to the very educated and talented people who work today to make the "owners" get rich! It's not nearly on the same level of exploitation as slavery, but it's still exploitation that most people accept as "the way it is" today... when people in about 150 years might think it's an utter outrage.
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Why draw a distinction between the working class and the white working class? [View all]
Garrett78
Jan 2017
OP
Because black voters vote solid Dem ticket regardless of any demographic subsets
HoneyBadger
Jan 2017
#1
HoneyBadger's reply clearly suggests that black voters can be taken for granted.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#7
Gore won 90%, Kerry won 88%, Obama won 96% in 2008, 93% in 2012 and Clinton won 88%.
HoneyBadger
Jan 2017
#6
So, black voters should just be written off as "ungettable"- while white voters who vote Republican
EffieBlack
Jan 2017
#37
Because they need to feel better than somebody and it's a tacit acknowledgment
elehhhhna
Jan 2017
#38
And we all know this. A white backlash has been building, as it has throughout US history,...
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#20
I'm nor interested in "winning over" racists. They're welcome if they change their tunes.
MADem
Jan 2017
#32
I agree. And I think it's worth remembering that well-to-do POC often get mistreated in our society.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#35
Historical injustice continues to impact the present. So, no, those owed are not all dead.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#46
I think this is an important point. See post #20. We need to change the narrative.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#22
I'm sure that the Republicans set out to claim those midwesterners. They succeeded.
yardwork
Jan 2017
#24
And she undoubtedly received millions of votes from working class whites. So...
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#15
But we must recognize that not everyone drawing the distinction is doing so maliciously.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#25
I think it is the result of that demographic being one that we got clobbered in. I think we need to
JCanete
Jan 2017
#28
Democrats already speak to the working class and win among the working class.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#29
I think they care more than you think. They are inundated by bullshit about who is making their
JCanete
Jan 2017
#31
I didn't suggest they don't care, just that white identity is a major factor for that segment.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#34
Only the white working class is lectured about their 'white privilege' by liberals
Dems to Win
Jan 2017
#41
Generalizing is being done by those suggesting all working class whites voted for Trump.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#43
A white person working for WalMart for $10/hour is privileged compared to a similarly situated POC
EffieBlack
Jan 2017
#51
Sanders positions was refuted a year ago, all PoC being rich STILL wouldn't eliminate racist effects
uponit7771
Jan 2017
#82
lol...somehow "us" insulting makes a fuckin difference?! That's a RWTP and not even close to reality
uponit7771
Jan 2017
#83
lol, that's like saying the justice system is not unfair to black people because OJ Simpson got free
JI7
Jan 2017
#62
It's a broadly used term, and different people will have, or not have, any intent behind it.
dionysus
Jan 2017
#47
It clarifies a political reality, like making a distinction between Evangelicals...
Buckeye_Democrat
Jan 2017
#59
I'm not saying you do. But that's what's so nasty about dog whistling and implicit bias.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#66
And now that I've read all of the Fusion article, I can certainly recommend it to others.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#71
Most Americans don't view reparations on the same footing as current problems.
Buckeye_Democrat
Jan 2017
#79
As I said, it's not an easy sell, but it needs to be done. The framing is key.
Garrett78
Jan 2017
#80