2016 Postmortem

Orsino

(37,428 posts)

99. We can't know that Sanders would have won.

Fri Jan 6, 2017, 11:42 AM

Jan 2017

The alternate universe in which Sanders came from far behind to capture the majority of Democratic delegates would differ from ours in many little and big ways, and obviously, primary success doesn't necessarily translate to a win in the general.

We don't have useful data for reaching your conclusion.

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Yes, Bernie Sanders would have beaten Trump, but the real question is [View all] mtnsnake Jan 2017 OP

Wuda Shuda Cuda WhiteTara Jan 2017 #1

Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #6

what ever cheating you feel went on bernie couldnt win the primary Ohioblue22 Jan 2017 #15

So they are so corrupt that they cheat even when they don't need to? n/t Motown_Johnny Jan 2017 #18

It's in their nature. They can't help it. It's who they are. brush Jan 2017 #63

He couldn't win the primary with Debbie Schultz in that drivers seat..n/t monmouth4 Jan 2017 #21

He couldn't win the primary with asshat Jeff Weaver in the driver's seat emulatorloo Jan 2017 #24

Yeah, Bernie saw no growth in support or popularity TDale313 Jan 2017 #59

AA, Latinos, Jewish voters, etc? What did Weaver do to bring those voters to Bernie? emulatorloo Jan 2017 #120

the all-powerful shultz did it .... ok......nt Ohioblue22 Jan 2017 #31

+1000 putitinD Jan 2017 #76

The DNC had nothing to do with Sanders being soundly rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino Gothmog Jan 2017 #88

They cheated by getting more votes? WhiteTara Jan 2017 #19

Never again. He trashed the party all through the primaries and then wouldn't concede when beaten brush Jan 2017 #65

My feelings too. WhiteTara Jan 2017 #67

Re: He is STILL trashing the Party SFnomad Jan 2017 #68

I agree completely. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #146

Point to specific actions that the DNC took to "cheat." emulatorloo Jan 2017 #25

Donna Brazile fed debate questions to Hillary. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #35

That was during the general in a debate with trump. Frankly, I have no problem with that. brush Jan 2017 #69

No, it was the primary debate in Flint. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #80

The incident I'm talking about was a debate with trump brush Jan 2017 #82

Link is unrelated Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #85

Ignoring a fact does make it go away Gothmog Jan 2017 #87

The DNC recommended the staffer involved Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #89

Sanders people still illegally took Clinton data Gothmog Jan 2017 #91

The DNC was supposed to provide a firewall Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #94

Ahhhh ... no. The Sanders campaign broke through the firewall brush Jan 2017 #96

There was no firewall to break through. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #97

That's not how I remember it. But why did the Sanders campaign take the info, firewall or not? brush Jan 2017 #98

Because the DNC had ignored their reports about this issue Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #108

So they took the info to prove it could be taken? O-k-a-a-a-a-a-y! brush Jan 2017 #116

And Bernie fired them for it. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #117

And he should have fired Jeff Weaver as well emulatorloo Jan 2017 #121

Weaver sued the DNC to restore Sanders' access to his own data. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #122

He sued because he's a hot-head and a monumental fuck-up emulatorloo Jan 2017 #123

He sued because the DNC cut off Bernie's access to his own data. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #124

I didn't say or intend to say you did. emulatorloo Jan 2017 #125

OK, but imagine if he did not sue. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #127

Of course! emulatorloo Jan 2017 #128

I think it's creative how hold two different standards LanternWaste Jan 2017 #143

There were ethical breaches on both sides Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #144

Which has NADA to do with Sanders. Lil Missy Jan 2017 #107

That would be true if they fed him the debate questions too. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #109

He was not in that debate, nor did he EVER debate Trump. Sanders lost the Primary ... remember? Lil Missy Jan 2017 #110

He was in the debate in Flint where Hillary was fed a question in advance. Qutzupalotl Jan 2017 #111

Donna has denied that actually...but when I heard the questions she supposedly Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #147

It was obvious to any objective observer the games played over the debates. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #53

I'm really not sure why Sanders felt the need to cheat. NCTraveler Jan 2017 #72

If by "they" you mean the Democratic Party, they did not cheat. synergie Jan 2017 #84

Millions of "Democrats" disagreed. n/t Tarheel_Dem Jan 2017 #2

Sigh mcar Jan 2017 #3

Geez. Make it stop already. eom Blanks Jan 2017 #4

Yes, he still would have won. Motown_Johnny Jan 2017 #5

Yes, I think he would have, too mtnsnake Jan 2017 #7

I think Free Trade is what sunk Hillary. Motown_Johnny Jan 2017 #8

What happened to Russ Feingold, Zypher Teachout, and every Democrat running for Senate in those still_one Jan 2017 #11

You will get crickets on this pertinent question mcar Jan 2017 #40

The democratic base had depressed voter turnout in those states. killbotfactory Jan 2017 #48

not a bad analysis in my opinion, and definitely contributory still_one Jan 2017 #49

FBI Putin Assange WhiteTara Jan 2017 #54

He lost because millions of people WhiteTara Jan 2017 #20

So you would have voted against Bernie in the General Election? Motown_Johnny Jan 2017 #30

You do know what assume means, don't you? WhiteTara Jan 2017 #51

Same here. Along with 4 million other democrats liquid diamond Jan 2017 #34

Lets see, lost primary, zypher teachout and Russ feingold heavily endorsed by Bernie lost, and every still_one Jan 2017 #9

So you're blaming Bernie Sanders for all those losses? mtnsnake Jan 2017 #13

No, I am refuting the speculation of those who say Bernie would have won, and for those still_one Jan 2017 #23

The best measurement of electability that we have is favorability. Motown_Johnny Jan 2017 #32

Sorry, Hillary got more votes, and the bullshit from people like greg palast who falsely still_one Jan 2017 #38

Trump won because of sexism and racism mcar Jan 2017 #41

So Bernie would have had parity with Trump HoneyBadger Jan 2017 #103

I have my doubts that Sanders would have won. hrmjustin Jan 2017 #10

There's no facts to back up Bernie would have beaten trump FloridaBlues Jan 2017 #12

Because... WhiteTara Jan 2017 #22

To divide Democrats. baldguy Jan 2017 #36

At least we still have Bernie in the Senate HockeyMom Jan 2017 #14

well you think that all you want doesnt make it so. bernie is a socialist who said our taxes Ohioblue22 Jan 2017 #16

No, he wouldn't have beaten Trump, the real question is why you guys keep synergie Jan 2017 #17

Excellent post... LenaBaby61 Jan 2017 #37

Exactly. This attacking the Democrats who voted, Hillary supporters and the DNC synergie Jan 2017 #83

Thank you. And to Hillary's credit she didn't use the negative oppo research against Sanders, . . . brush Jan 2017 #100

They seem to spend more time bashing Democrats and Hillary than Trump, GOP or Putin. synergie Jan 2017 #118

I think you are over-thinking. Really - does the "republican base" give a shit who trump jmg257 Jan 2017 #26

He would have beaten Trump the same way Russ Feingold beat Ron Johnson emulatorloo Jan 2017 #27

good point. and russ feingold lost to johnson by several percentage points, while Hillary lost still_one Jan 2017 #39

Young people stayed home in Wisconsin in the ge. You can't pin that on Bernie. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #50

Lol, I'm not "pinning" anything on Bernie. Just pointing out that OP's reasoning is faulty emulatorloo Jan 2017 #75

You are pretending the top of the ticket doesn't have a huge influence down ballot. Ridiculous Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #81

I'm not "pretending" anything. emulatorloo Jan 2017 #119

Oh, ffs! This is getting pathetic. Sissyk Jan 2017 #28

I think Bernie would have gotten alot of republicans votes. putitinD Jan 2017 #77

True. and all the Dems who voted for Trump. ciaobaby Jan 2017 #129

Will this stuff ever end? n/t rzemanfl Jan 2017 #29

No BS wouldn't have won if he had ever made it out of the primaries. Cha Jan 2017 #33

This has got to stop Saviolo Jan 2017 #42

Thank you! Cha Jan 2017 #43

I'm thinking about making it an OP Saviolo Jan 2017 #44

Do it! Cha Jan 2017 #45

Thanks! Saviolo Jan 2017 #46

The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected Gothmog Jan 2017 #130

Its obvious that some folks NanceGreggs Jan 2017 #47

This Postmortem thing needs to end. Well said, Nance. n/t rzemanfl Jan 2017 #52

It sure does still_one Jan 2017 #56

................................................... still_one Jan 2017 #55

Perfect. Thank you! n/t VOX Jan 2017 #62

Fairy tales?? Hahaha, look who's talking, the matriarch of fairy tales and fables herself! mtnsnake Jan 2017 #64

I have never claimed that Hillary won the election. NanceGreggs Jan 2017 #71

Hallelujah! I'm glad to hear you admit that Hillary lost mtnsnake Jan 2017 #93

When did I not admit it? NanceGreggs Jan 2017 #131

Oh yeah. Cha Jan 2017 #74

Yep Gothmog Jan 2017 #90

Trump would have crushed Sanders Grey Lemercier Jan 2017 #57

BERNIE LOST Maven Jan 2017 #58

She DID beat Trump, and here we are. ucrdem Jan 2017 #60

Sure she did. That's why everyone's talking about President-elect Clinton, right? mtnsnake Jan 2017 #66

This dead horse isn't going to resurrect itself... VOX Jan 2017 #61

. NCTraveler Jan 2017 #70

The real question now is how do we keep this from happening again? potone Jan 2017 #73

Bernie walks on water, too! SharonClark Jan 2017 #78

Beaten him at what? Jakes Progress Jan 2017 #79

Good points, especially about the baggage thing mtnsnake Jan 2017 #95

And beginning in March or April Jakes Progress Jan 2017 #115

Sanders was on the ballot in 2016 and under performed Clinton Gothmog Jan 2017 #86

We will never know. However, what we do know is that Clinton lost to Trump. jalan48 Jan 2017 #92

We can't know that Sanders would have won. Orsino Jan 2017 #99

Would it have made a difference with both houses of Congress being republican? no_hypocrisy Jan 2017 #101

He didn't win enough votes in the primary. Historic NY Jan 2017 #102

Understand what you are saying there. That said; I really do not think Clinton could have beaten a Alekzander Jan 2017 #104

Only one way to settle this HoneyBadger Jan 2017 #105

No reason to read beyond the subject line. Lil Missy Jan 2017 #106

But you obviously did read beyond it mtnsnake Jan 2017 #112

Actually, I didn't. But if such delusion comforts you, so be it. Lil Missy Jan 2017 #113

Okay I'll take your word for it. mtnsnake Jan 2017 #114

Why even bring this up again? radical noodle Jan 2017 #126

So you must think that the oligarchs in Russia would have preferred Bernie pnwmom Jan 2017 #132

100% your words, not mine mtnsnake Jan 2017 #133

Why do you think that the Russian oligarchs wouldn't have interfered pnwmom Jan 2017 #134

There's nothing about Russia in my post, so either you meant to post that in a different thread mtnsnake Jan 2017 #135

You are desperately trying to IGNORE Russia, but in the real world we can't. pnwmom Jan 2017 #136

You are desperately trying to hijack a thread again by getting it off subject. mtnsnake Jan 2017 #137

You can't truthfully state that Russia wasn't part of the 2016 election. pnwmom Jan 2017 #138

Obviously, I never did state that. mtnsnake Jan 2017 #139

I agree. Emotion tends to thwart good intellectual points. snowy owl Jan 2017 #140

Nope, Bernie Sanders would not have beaten Trump, but the real question is zappaman Jan 2017 #141

Nope, Trump beats Sanders easily and here is why stevenleser Jan 2017 #142

If Bernie could not win a primary, he was never going to win an election. Demsrule86 Jan 2017 #145