Occupy Underground

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)

134. Your terms are seriously skewed.

Wed Jul 11, 2012, 09:39 PM

Jul 2012

First of all, "globalization" is not "world trade." PLEASE be honest in your use of terms, okay? Globalization is a particular program of the capitalist class to create the same conditions for multinational corporations in all countries, so that they can always find cheap labor and are not tied down by laws or taxes. The battle against globalization is not against "world trade," but against the kind of trade that breaks the working class.

What remains of the middle class is being pushed into economic precarity - by capitalism. A lot of people are waking up to that right now. There's no reason to be pandering to anyone's fantasies. It's about time capitalism is being directly addressed as a disaster, because it is a disaster. Capitalism necessarily creates inequality, is destructive on a global scale and ultimately unsustainable.

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So now Occupy is against world trade and capitalism? They will lose support of the 50+% of the 99% [View all] applegrove May 2012 OP

And can you name one thing about globalization that has been positive? nt Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #1

Millions of people in Asia and Africa are now middle class. Bill Clinton wrote in his book that applegrove May 2012 #4

At the expense of the impoverishment of millions. Not good enough. Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #5

The people who are impoverished are the subsistence farmers who face famine. That is a tough life. applegrove May 2012 #9

Capitalism and globalism consist of the rich taking the lion's share and leaving Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #12

There is no requirement for participation pipoman May 2012 #13

No. Democracy takes ahold and people demand adequate taxes on the rich. Same thing Occupy is applegrove May 2012 #17

Not without the right to demand anything, pipoman May 2012 #19

Free trade as established by our trade agreements destroys democracy -- our own JDPriestly Jun 2012 #67

+1 OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #76

totally agreed! donheld Aug 2012 #137

I agree with JDPriestly above. girl gone mad Jul 2012 #124

They move off the subsistence farms as American farmers did back in the 1930s JDPriestly May 2012 #20

+1 limpyhobbler May 2012 #23

That is the same argument Mi$$ Rmoney and the Teabaggers use. Got another? jtuck004 Jun 2012 #69

It is all part of the same neoliberal economic model. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #72

'We', who is 'we' who are a 'a lot richer'? We have the largest income inequality sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #99

Cute. But I stand by what I said. jtuck004 Jun 2012 #100

As I said, you will need more than your opinion sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #101

Good luck with your crusade. Sounds like you got it all figured out. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #102

No, I don't have it all figured out. I just know the facts, figuring it all out is going to take a sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #108

Dictionaries and people on Jeopardy are full of facts too. Doesn't mean they accomplish much. jtuck004 Jun 2012 #109

We've all seen the egos served and their obscene bank accounts, which is why OWS sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #110

Ah, you think it takes money to be ego driven. jtuck004 Jun 2012 #112

All goals set by Occupy have been accomplished. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #113

Well, sounds like you are suitably impressed. good luck. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #114

I'm always impressed by success! sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #115

I'll be looking for other accomplishments beyond self-aggrandizement. Thanks. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #117

I think you already missed them. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #118

Lol, cute deflection. I have potatoes to feed, more important. But you don't need to have launched a jtuck004 Jun 2012 #120

Lol, nothing is a waste of time. I learned a lot, so thank you for that. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #121

Yeah, what you said. And u asked what I have done. Today I saw two little girls running jtuck004 Jun 2012 #122

OWS shouldn't take credit for BoA changing it's debit card fees Chathamization Jun 2012 #119

Aproaching? We're there nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #107

and now millions of people in America who used to be middle class 2pooped2pop May 2012 #24

applegrove has no response to that. THIS is why anti-globalism is ascendant in America. Zalatix Jun 2012 #52

You have nailed it. truedelphi Jun 2012 #57

Because the rich have taken over in the usa with tax cuts and economic bubbles that they make money applegrove Jun 2012 #73

At the expense of the United States losing its sovereignty, JDPriestly Jun 2012 #65

trade does not stop wars OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #70

That is what I take issue with. Demonstrators will say they are anti-capitalist when they mean applegrove Jun 2012 #71

But they aren't just "anti pure capitalism" OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #75

But Obama is for trade. If you say you are antiglobal trade you cut out a whole host of people in applegrove Jun 2012 #78

Yes, Obama is for trade. That doesn't make him right. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #82

They are anti-CORRUPTION sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #111

I can think of several positive things. Zalatix Jun 2012 #54

Probably not.... movonne May 2012 #2

I've been hearing of the imminent demise of Occupy since the day it started MannyGoldstein May 2012 #3

Occupy is the only truth-telling organization today. nt Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #6

That's funny!!! greytdemocrat May 2012 #26

Clearly you know of more organizations speaking truth to power? Care to share? nt Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #41

+1 emulatorloo May 2012 #7

Is this your mission here? The daily slam? Warren Stupidity May 2012 #8

I'm objecting to the change of focus from inequality onto all manner of leftist causes. I have a applegrove May 2012 #11

You're just objecting. Nothing has changed. Warren Stupidity May 2012 #15

Occupy wasn't anti-NATO or anti global. It was anti-power in the hands of a few - same as Arab applegrove May 2012 #16

nato is the militarized arm of the 1% 2pooped2pop May 2012 #25

Absolutely correct - and anyone who is not questioning unfettered capitalism TBF May 2012 #33

I doubt many people who are offended by OWS UnrepentantLiberal May 2012 #30

EXCUSE ME, drynberg Jun 2012 #56

I am a big supporter of Occupy. I want to see it become a permanent world wide movement to fight the applegrove May 2012 #18

I understand ur concerns 2pooped2pop May 2012 #27

What type of "inequality" are you seeking to fight? TBF May 2012 #34

The rich buying the government. A lack of taxes on the rich. Credit card legislation that helps applegrove May 2012 #35

And you've seen what happened to the world in the past 50 years TBF May 2012 #36

You are talking about what has happened to America in the last 50 years. Other countries, like mine applegrove May 2012 #37

This is a student protest in Montreal - YESTERDAY - you're doing smashingly. nt TBF May 2012 #38

Students in Quebec don't want to pay $3000 dollars a term for University. They are applegrove May 2012 #39

I have a feeling your definition of "lucky" and mine vary widely. TBF May 2012 #40

why are so many Canadians obssessed with American political forums? girl gone mad Jul 2012 #125

There is only a housing bubble in Toronto and Vancouver (two cities that have had high housing applegrove Jul 2012 #129

+ my household. n/t truedelphi Jun 2012 #61

No, pipoman May 2012 #10

Bull shit. Nt xchrom May 2012 #14

They're making one fatal mistake - they're not running anyone kysrsoze May 2012 #21

Occupy can neither support nor engage the very system causing all of our trouble. Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #42

Getting involved in elections Chathamization May 2012 #47

None of them are even discussing taking back the trillions upon trillions of dollars given to banks Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #48

It's insane Chathamization May 2012 #49

Yes on all counts. Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #50

In San diego alone we had three candidates for congress in three different districts nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #106

This movement would destroy itself, if it were to do as you suggest. However, there are OWS sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #116

Instead of anti-globalization, think alter-globalization. We want FAIR trade. limpyhobbler May 2012 #22

Then OWS should be clear that they want to alter globalization not end it. And they should be clear applegrove May 2012 #44

The movement has people with diverse views who agree on some common actions. limpyhobbler May 2012 #45

Was there ever? tama Aug 2012 #138

In the sense the Capitalism includes PROFIT ... GeorgeGist May 2012 #28

IMO, your Third Way neo-liberal 1% plutarchy supporting propaganda is not Zorra May 2012 #29

My positions are like Obamas on world trade and nato. applegrove May 2012 #31

Ah. I get it. That's why you framed the debate so well right in the subject line of your OP. Zorra May 2012 #32

Your positions are like that of the Koch's and the US Chamber of Commerce. Zalatix Jun 2012 #53

No they are not. They are like Obama's. Like the vast majority of people in the USA. Occupy touched applegrove Jun 2012 #79

Yes, your ideas ARE aligned with the US Chamber of Commerce. Zalatix Jun 2012 #83

My ideas are the same as Obama's. That is who I follow. The right wing wins if Occupy becomes a applegrove Jun 2012 #85

Nope, your views are in line with the US Chamber of Commerce. Not Obama. Zalatix Jun 2012 #86

I'm sorry but I follow Obama on trade policy. You can say 'nope' all you want. I know the right applegrove Jun 2012 #87

I know you're wrong. Obama signed a tariff law. You oppose tariffs. You know you're wrong. Zalatix Jun 2012 #88

I don't oppose tariffs. I'm for tariffs on chinese goods if they are messing with their dollar. applegrove Jun 2012 #91

So your OP was an attack on a straw man? Zalatix Jun 2012 #92

Like Bill Clinton said, America is winning on trade except for China and the middle east. The applegrove Jun 2012 #93

Do you support Obama's 2008 position on trade, or his 2012 position? limpyhobbler Jun 2012 #98

If your position on trade is the same as Obama's OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #74

I totally agree money is corrupting politics and the 1% have too much power. Why I want to see applegrove Jun 2012 #80

How do you think you can fight that OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #81

Thank you greatly for making this apparent to those truedelphi Jun 2012 #58

Against corrupt capitalism, certainly, and has been so from the beginning. Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #43

World trade and capitalism are the primary tools of the 1%. Hatchling May 2012 #46

Considering that the majority of Americans are AGAINST offshoring, Occupy will win BIG on this one. Zalatix Jun 2012 #51

Stand with you in Solidarity of Occupy. n/t truedelphi Jun 2012 #59

Without inequality there is no capitalism. Inequality drives the system. TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #55

You seem to have ignored a most vital truedelphi Jun 2012 #60

THERE ARE OVER 70 MILLION DEMOCRATS IN THIS COUNTRY. secondwind Jun 2012 #62

As a left-libertarian, I'm opposed to Occupy being co-opted by Old Left and various Old Left groups Leopolds Ghost Jun 2012 #63

Opposing trade agreements is wise. These trade agreements are a cover for the JDPriestly Jun 2012 #64

Bill Clinton pointed out in his book that the only trade the USA was not doing well on in balance applegrove Jun 2012 #66

Do we have trade agreements with China or Opec Oil countries that bind us JDPriestly Jun 2012 #68

He has since then admitted that his idea that we could save Haiti through trade OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #77

This is the truth about free trade - it's all about keeping Chinese and Haitians poor. Zalatix Jun 2012 #84

Wow. That's disgusting. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #89

The answer is that we fight against capitalism globally. TBF Jun 2012 #94

We would have supported them by fighting for an $8/hour minimum wage in Haiti. Zalatix Jun 2012 #95

What crap. Capitalism is the problem. Socialism is the solution. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #90

It depends on the brand of Capitalism egbertowillies Jun 2012 #96

Then why don't they call it 'casino capitalism' on the signs. It alienates OWS from part applegrove Jun 2012 #97

Capitalism As We Know It tama Aug 2012 #139

I highly recommend you become VERY FAMILIAR with the term HARMONIZATION nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #103

I'm not denying trade with China is bad. They are messing with their currency and should face applegrove Jun 2012 #104

It's not china nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #105

Understand Remember Jun 2012 #123

I'm With You on This On the Road Jul 2012 #126

It's crucial to distinguish kinds of "globalism." snot Jul 2012 #127

Every single reply in this thread to the OP is OFF TOPIC. Speck Tater Jul 2012 #128

Occupy will lose some of its support, not most of it. But it was those supporters that had woken up applegrove Jul 2012 #130

Doesn't matter. Chan790 Jul 2012 #131

Also rw libertarians tama Aug 2012 #140

This promises to be an erudite conversation! JackRiddler Jul 2012 #132

My point is the middle class came together over inequlity during that occupy fall. Don't we want to applegrove Jul 2012 #133

Your terms are seriously skewed. JackRiddler Jul 2012 #134

My terms are not skewed. I'm make an observation. Occupy appealed to over 50% of Americans applegrove Jul 2012 #135

91% of Democrats and 87% of Republicans oppose offshoring. Zalatix Aug 2012 #136