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Congratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
Democratic Primaries
In reply to the discussion: It was about the messanger(s) [View all]Gothmog
(154,046 posts)46. Bernie Sanders didn't win any larger argument
In the real world, sanders did not win any major argument https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-didnt-win-any-larger-argument/2020/03/19/39b9a402-69f2-11ea-9923-57073adce27c_story.html
As pressure mounts for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to abandon his presidential bid, a narrative seems to have taken hold among his supporters and on cable TV, and it goes like this: Sanders may have all but lost the nomination fight, but he won the larger ideological argument, and hes fundamentally changed the Democratic Party. His movement must be reckoned with.
To which I can only say: If this is what it looks like to win the argument, I struggle to imagine what it would look like to lose. In any way that counts, Sanderss vision for the party has been soundly and consistently rejected....
This idea that Sanders has somehow won, even while we all thought he was losing, seems to rest on two assertions: one, that exit polls tell us the voters actually agree with his proposal for nationalized health care; and two, that he changed the conversation to the point where all the candidates were forced to adopt his agenda.
Neither withstands much scrutiny.
Lets be real. Exit polls are all fine and good, but votes are votes. If Democrats really sided that strongly with Sanders on the issue they routinely say is the most important in the campaign, hed be winning.
A raft of other polls on health care will tell you that it all depends on how you ask the question. According to one conducted last month by the Kaiser Family Foundation, most people who say they support Medicare-for-all also think theyd be able to keep their own insurance. (Under Sanderss plan, they wouldnt.)
And if you ask them to choose between building on the foundation President Barack Obama laid or a Sanders-style overhaul, a strong majority chooses the more moderate approach.....
And in his second run for the nomination, Sanders has performed not better but worse, failing to turn out the huge numbers of younger voters he predicted. In fact, you could say Sanderss trajectory is the exact opposite of Reagans; while much of the media (me included) assumed he and Warren spoke for an ascendant wing of the party during the Trump years, it turns out the uprising was more limited than we thought.
Sure, Biden should say all the right things to unite his party. Sure, hell be willing to give some things away in the party platform, which has about as much influence on governing as I do on the Yankees lineup.
But hard as this may be for some millennials to accept, theres only one winner here. Sanders doesnt get a participation trophy.
The only thing hes owed is a chance to exit with grace.
To which I can only say: If this is what it looks like to win the argument, I struggle to imagine what it would look like to lose. In any way that counts, Sanderss vision for the party has been soundly and consistently rejected....
This idea that Sanders has somehow won, even while we all thought he was losing, seems to rest on two assertions: one, that exit polls tell us the voters actually agree with his proposal for nationalized health care; and two, that he changed the conversation to the point where all the candidates were forced to adopt his agenda.
Neither withstands much scrutiny.
Lets be real. Exit polls are all fine and good, but votes are votes. If Democrats really sided that strongly with Sanders on the issue they routinely say is the most important in the campaign, hed be winning.
A raft of other polls on health care will tell you that it all depends on how you ask the question. According to one conducted last month by the Kaiser Family Foundation, most people who say they support Medicare-for-all also think theyd be able to keep their own insurance. (Under Sanderss plan, they wouldnt.)
And if you ask them to choose between building on the foundation President Barack Obama laid or a Sanders-style overhaul, a strong majority chooses the more moderate approach.....
And in his second run for the nomination, Sanders has performed not better but worse, failing to turn out the huge numbers of younger voters he predicted. In fact, you could say Sanderss trajectory is the exact opposite of Reagans; while much of the media (me included) assumed he and Warren spoke for an ascendant wing of the party during the Trump years, it turns out the uprising was more limited than we thought.
Sure, Biden should say all the right things to unite his party. Sure, hell be willing to give some things away in the party platform, which has about as much influence on governing as I do on the Yankees lineup.
But hard as this may be for some millennials to accept, theres only one winner here. Sanders doesnt get a participation trophy.
The only thing hes owed is a chance to exit with grace.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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Yay centrism! It brought us the Iraq War, NAFTA, DOMA, Financial Deregulation, Prison Overcrowding,
DanTex
Mar 2020
#1
I am not going to list all the misery that socialist governments have brought on their citizens
question everything
Mar 2020
#3
Of course! If not for the Iraq War, we'd be like the Soviet Union!!! There's no other option!
DanTex
Mar 2020
#5
And the left/Greens gave us that war courtesy of Ralph Nader...imagine a world where Gore won.
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#38
She is a justice Democrat unless I am mistaken...I like socialist better than that group.
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#35
Well he sure seemed like a centrist when he supported every single one of those things.
DanTex
Mar 2020
#9
LOL. I love appeals to the chart. Yes, that proves that voting for the Iraq War, and DOMA,
DanTex
Mar 2020
#12
You were not wrong...Sanders was not electable ...he would have lost the general...massively
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#29
That is such nonsense...the left always mistakes words for important actions...what has Bernie ever
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#33
Why fight against Biden? Why not fight against Trump and the republicans instead?
NCProgressive
Mar 2020
#20
Pointing out that Biden doesn't support Medicare for All is hardly "fighting" him.
DanTex
Mar 2020
#23
It will be too late. We won't have time to raise the money we need...his supporters will remain
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#27
The tiny and faint glimmer of hope that Bernie may still win this is doing wonders
NCProgressive
Mar 2020
#36
So he doesn't .... what is the point of it? Biden won fair and square and won decisively
NCProgressive
Mar 2020
#34
Perhaps the left/Greens could consider fighting Republicans instead of Democrats and costing us
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#28
Why do you keep talking about the Greens? I'm not a Green. Bernie's not a Green.
DanTex
Mar 2020
#41
Stein was where the anti -Hillary votes on the left went last time...so it is a coalition of sorts
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#48
More Bernie voters in 2016 voted for HRC than HRC voters in 2008 voted for Obama.
DanTex
Mar 2020
#51
I find it hilarious that the same people who think the red-baiting Communist smears
DanTex
Mar 2020
#42
Actually Dan, it was brought on by leftist / Greens who refused to vote for multiple Democratic
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#21
No Dan as I pointed out all of those things were brought about by left/Greens not supporting our
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#40
Really? The Greens are responsible for the 90s deregulation, welfare reform, crime bill, etc?
DanTex
Mar 2020
#44
So now we go back to the 90's? How about starting in 2000? In fact, after Reagan became president.
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#47
We don't. We need suburban Moms and AA voters who tend to be moderate to conserative...our
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#25
Great post...was this an OP...really excellent...if it wasn't, it should be.
Demsrule86
Mar 2020
#49
Unions Are Not Big Supporters of M4All - That's a Problem for Dem Politicians
Indykatie
Mar 2020
#52