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In reply to the discussion: No, pro Palestinian leftists, Israel is not committing genocide [View all]EX500rider
(11,548 posts)56. The same Lancet with the totally BS causalities figures from the 2nd Persian Gulf War against Iraq?
The Lancet, one of the oldest scientific medical journals in the world, published two peer-reviewed studies on the effect of the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation on the Iraqi mortality rate.
The Iraq Body Count project (IBC), who compiles a database of reported civilian deaths, has criticised the Lancet's estimate of 601,000 violent deaths[26] out of the Lancet estimate of 654,965 total excess deaths related to the war.
An October 2006 article by IBC argues that the Lancet estimate is suspect "because of a very different conclusion reached by another random household survey, the Iraq Living Conditions Survey 2004 (ILCS), using a comparable method but a considerably better-distributed and much larger sample."
IBC also enumerates several "shocking implications" which would be true if the Lancet report were accurate, e.g. "Half a million death certificates were received by families which were never officially recorded as having been issued" and claims that these "extreme and improbable implications" and "utter failure of local or external agencies to notice and respond to a decimation of the adult male population in key urban areas" are some of several reasons why they doubt the study's estimates.
IBC states that these consequences would constitute "extreme notions".[27] Later statements in a 2010 article by IBC say that the "hugely exaggerated death toll figures" from the 2006 Lancet report have "been comprehensively discredited" by recently published research.
Beth Osborne Daponte, a demographer known for producing death estimates for the first Gulf War, evaluates the Lancet survey and other sources in a paper for the International Review of the Red Cross.[34]
Among other criticisms, Daponte questions the reliability of pre-war estimates used in the Lancet study to derive its "excess deaths" estimate, and the ethical approval for the survey. She concludes that the most reliable information available to date is provided by the Iraq Family Health Survey, the Iraq Living Conditions Survey and Iraq Body Count.
A 2010 paper by Professor Michael Spagat entitled "Ethical and Data-Integrity Problems in the Second Lancet Survey of Mortality in Iraq" was published in the peer reviewed journal Defense & Peace Economics.
This paper argues that there were several "ethical violations to the survey's respondents", faults the study authors for "non-disclosure of the survey's questionnaire, data-entry form, data matching anonymised interviewer identifications with households and sample design", and presents "evidence relating to data fabrication and falsification, which falls into nine broad categories."
The paper concludes that the Lancet survey, "cannot be considered a reliable or valid contribution towards knowledge about the extent of mortality in Iraq since 2003."
Steven E. Moore, who conducted survey research in Iraq for the Coalition Provisional Authority and was an advisor to Paul Bremer for the International Republican Institute, ridiculed the Lancet study in an 18 October 2006 editorial in the Wall Street Journal.
In a piece entitled, "655,000 War Dead? A bogus study on Iraq casualties", Moore wrote, "I wouldn't survey a junior high school, no less an entire country, using only 47 cluster points. Neither would anyone else...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties
The Iraq Body Count project (IBC), who compiles a database of reported civilian deaths, has criticised the Lancet's estimate of 601,000 violent deaths[26] out of the Lancet estimate of 654,965 total excess deaths related to the war.
An October 2006 article by IBC argues that the Lancet estimate is suspect "because of a very different conclusion reached by another random household survey, the Iraq Living Conditions Survey 2004 (ILCS), using a comparable method but a considerably better-distributed and much larger sample."
IBC also enumerates several "shocking implications" which would be true if the Lancet report were accurate, e.g. "Half a million death certificates were received by families which were never officially recorded as having been issued" and claims that these "extreme and improbable implications" and "utter failure of local or external agencies to notice and respond to a decimation of the adult male population in key urban areas" are some of several reasons why they doubt the study's estimates.
IBC states that these consequences would constitute "extreme notions".[27] Later statements in a 2010 article by IBC say that the "hugely exaggerated death toll figures" from the 2006 Lancet report have "been comprehensively discredited" by recently published research.
Beth Osborne Daponte, a demographer known for producing death estimates for the first Gulf War, evaluates the Lancet survey and other sources in a paper for the International Review of the Red Cross.[34]
Among other criticisms, Daponte questions the reliability of pre-war estimates used in the Lancet study to derive its "excess deaths" estimate, and the ethical approval for the survey. She concludes that the most reliable information available to date is provided by the Iraq Family Health Survey, the Iraq Living Conditions Survey and Iraq Body Count.
A 2010 paper by Professor Michael Spagat entitled "Ethical and Data-Integrity Problems in the Second Lancet Survey of Mortality in Iraq" was published in the peer reviewed journal Defense & Peace Economics.
This paper argues that there were several "ethical violations to the survey's respondents", faults the study authors for "non-disclosure of the survey's questionnaire, data-entry form, data matching anonymised interviewer identifications with households and sample design", and presents "evidence relating to data fabrication and falsification, which falls into nine broad categories."
The paper concludes that the Lancet survey, "cannot be considered a reliable or valid contribution towards knowledge about the extent of mortality in Iraq since 2003."
Steven E. Moore, who conducted survey research in Iraq for the Coalition Provisional Authority and was an advisor to Paul Bremer for the International Republican Institute, ridiculed the Lancet study in an 18 October 2006 editorial in the Wall Street Journal.
In a piece entitled, "655,000 War Dead? A bogus study on Iraq casualties", Moore wrote, "I wouldn't survey a junior high school, no less an entire country, using only 47 cluster points. Neither would anyone else...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties
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If not to insure ongoing hatred of Israel, why do so many people who know better insist on calling it genocide?
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#35
If this were to happen once or twice in a blue moon, you could blame it on imprecise wording.
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#57
Of course not. They pretend to think of it as a legal term while being willfuly ignorant of what it entails.
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#88
But you're not just pointing out a fallacy, not just pointing out the word "genocide" being used incorrectly
RidinWithHarris
Sep 30
#115
Did you ever come across an OP on DU containing instances of violence in Gaza?
Beastly Boy
Oct 1
#124
When one detects suspiciously consistent narrative patterns, it would be pure folly to not acknowledge them.
Beastly Boy
Oct 1
#129
You don't get to claim the moral high ground after Israel murders over 100,000 innocent people
RAB910
Sep 29
#4
The same Lancet with the totally BS causalities figures from the 2nd Persian Gulf War against Iraq?
EX500rider
Sep 29
#56
So you think an entirely different study by an entirely different team of researchers
Rob H.
Sep 29
#59
So wrong. Genocide is INTENTIONAL killing of a group of people based on their ethnicity or race
elias7
Sep 29
#11
Yes it doesn't matter, They'll find some other reason to excuse Bibi's genocide againt the Palestinians.
canuckledragger
Sep 29
#72
Then what is the term for mass bombing of civilians and pushing them off their land?
Martin Eden
Sep 29
#21
"Do you think after all that has happened, Jews and Palestinians can live together peacefully as citizens with equal
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#38
With the question you asked and answered, you are ignoring Gaza and the West Bank
Martin Eden
Sep 29
#49
The question was yours. My response was to bring your attention to the state where the answer to your question
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#55
Are "cultural differences" the distinction between Israeli Palestinians and those in the West Bank and Gaza?
Martin Eden
Sep 29
#75
The ICJ has NOT found Israel's conduct to at least merit charges for war crimes.
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#40
You are correct about the ICC Court itself not having made a determination versus
moniss
Sep 30
#120
Only 41000, life doesn't have much value, I guess. That is only 2% of the population.
doc03
Sep 29
#19
So it is the fault of Gazan civilians for getting in the way. Bibi could nuke Gaza and kill
doc03
Sep 29
#50
This might make some sense if there was evidence of land taken by Israel as a resultt of
Beastly Boy
Sep 29
#45
That's nothing compared to the death toll of a Republican when they become president
DSandra
Sep 29
#29
ah yes, the old 'anti-semitism' deflection when people point out Bibi's genocide against the Palestinians.
canuckledragger
Sep 29
#100
I suggest that with a slogan such as "From the river to the sea", it is the Palestinians
marybourg
Sep 29
#73
And yet it's the Palestinian civilians that are the ones getting slaughtered by the 10's of 1000's
canuckledragger
Sep 29
#74
So slaughtering innocent civilians is OK to you...or only if they're Palestinians?
canuckledragger
Sep 29
#78