General Discussion

markpkessinger

(8,587 posts)

13. I've served on a Manhattan criminal jury, and have lived here for over 40 years . . .

Fri Dec 6, 2024, 04:40 PM

Dec 6

. . . To say they "couldn't have" found 12 jurors willing to convict? Come on, you don't know that and neither do I!

The jury I sat on was an attempted rape case. The defendant was an indigent, homeless guy. None of us necessarily wanted to convict him, and we did have some sympathy for his plight. But he was pulled off the victim by a cop who heard her screams from down the block, his erect penis expose through his open fly, so the case was pretty open and shut. One juror, however, was resistant. It took some work to convince her, but in the end, she, too, voted to convict.

As best I could tell concerning this case, New Yorkers were split on their opinions. It happens that this jury was had at least 1 member who was unwilling to convict; but that does not mean another jury wouldn't have been willing. That's just the crap shoot of the jury system.

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Subway chokehold guy got charges dismissed. [View all] mobeau69 Dec 6 OP

When the jury asked for the definition of "a reasonable person," the defense knew it couldn't lose. PeaceWave Dec 6 #1

Yep, think so. mobeau69 Dec 6 #2

They may as well have asked for a definition of "the law." PeaceWave Dec 6 #3

I was wondering why the charges in the first place.. Deuxcents Dec 6 #4

Hmmm...I think there is room for differing opinions on the appropriateness of this man's intervention. Drum Dec 6 #8

So far, I understand that Neely was still alive (if barely) when released, and Penny left. yagotme Dec 9 #75

Odd isn't it that someone saving all of the passengers with such a maneuver wouldn't follow through Drum Dec 9 #77

He was advised to place Neely on his left side, to help avoid vomit from entering Neely's lungs, yagotme Dec 9 #79

Thank you for filling me in. Drum Dec 9 #80

Here's Wiki's version: yagotme Dec 9 #82

Protect them from what? Quiet Em Dec 6 #26

People who ride the train daily know you just can't choke to death every person who acts out on the train. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 6 #28

My fear as well. I bet we see a decrease in help. jimfields33 Dec 9 #76

Dismissed or hung jury? Tommy Carcetti Dec 6 #5

Dismissed. Jury now considering lesser included charges. mobeau69 Dec 6 #9

Thanks. nt Tommy Carcetti Dec 6 #14

No New York City jury was ever going to convict this guy Prairie Gates Dec 6 #6

This New Yorker would have voted to convict! markpkessinger Dec 6 #7

A jury takes 12 Prairie Gates Dec 6 #10

I've served on a Manhattan criminal jury, and have lived here for over 40 years . . . markpkessinger Dec 6 #13

I seem to recall a certain guy who got convicted by a Manhattan jury Tommy Carcetti Dec 6 #15

Yes, Manhattan juries convict Prairie Gates Dec 6 #20

I definitely think he's criminally responsible to some degree. Tommy Carcetti Dec 6 #23

A jury takes 12 though Prairie Gates Dec 6 #11

Agreed. Drum Dec 6 #12

six minute chokehold Skittles Dec 6 #17

So do ForgedCrank Dec 6 #18

So he deserved summary execution, then? Blue_Tires Dec 6 #22

There was ForgedCrank Dec 6 #31

six minutes is not accidental Quiet Em Dec 6 #34

Of course ForgedCrank Dec 6 #36

He did more than restrain him. Quiet Em Dec 6 #38

Well I ForgedCrank Dec 6 #39

No woman was assaulted on the train that day. Quiet Em Dec 6 #40

"No woman was assaulted on the train that day." ForgedCrank Dec 6 #42

Your don't seem to understand this at all. Quiet Em Dec 6 #45

Ok ForgedCrank Dec 6 #47

What the fuck do you think happens when you suffocate someone for 6 minutes? Blue_Tires Dec 7 #73

If he had ACTUALLY been "suffocating" him for 6 minutes, Neely would have been dead as a doornail yagotme Dec 9 #78

Well since Donnie is a threat to all of us Blue_Tires Dec 7 #71

He had no weapon and he didn't touch anyone. Quiet Em Dec 6 #24

You left out ForgedCrank Dec 6 #35

That's not how the legal systems works. Quiet Em Dec 6 #37

Ok, Ok, I get it. ForgedCrank Dec 6 #41

" The man has a history of violence including felony assault on women, on subways." markpkessinger Dec 9 #74

I'm the ForgedCrank Dec 9 #86

I might have, and yes, I'm an NYCr. electric_blue68 Dec 6 #56

Agree 100% Polybius Dec 6 #67

Ugh Prairie Gates Dec 7 #70

Disgusting Rebl2 Dec 6 #16

Manslaughter charge against Daniel Penny dismissed, jury to continue deliberating lesser charge Monday TheProle Dec 6 #19

Even if he was convicted, TFG would just pardon him Blue_Tires Dec 6 #21

Yeah, some ahole Republican in the House Quiet Em Dec 6 #25

Not a federal charge n/t Shrek Dec 6 #27

Or Not ProfessorGAC Dec 6 #29

How would he do that as he is not the Governor of NY? You do know this is a state crime, right? The President kelly1mm Dec 6 #33

Everything being the same except reverse the races of the individuals involved ThePartyThatListens Dec 6 #30

Exactly. White, male priviledge. The elephant in the room everyone on this thread is ignoring. brush Dec 9 #83

Good. This entire prosecution was serious overreach/overcharging. nt kelly1mm Dec 6 #32

You know what else was an overreach? Reaching around the victim's neck and strangling when the victim touched no one Hassin Bin Sober Dec 6 #43

Exactly! Drum Dec 6 #44

Physical contact is not an element of the defense of 'defense of others'. The perpetrator in this kelly1mm Dec 6 #48

Penny was on trial. Not Neely. Quiet Em Dec 6 #49

Causing the death of another (if true) is not always a crime. Like in this case. nt kelly1mm Dec 6 #50

Neely was not the perpetrator as you said. Quiet Em Dec 6 #51

Yes he was. He was threatening people to the extent that a reasonable person could determine that a defense of others kelly1mm Dec 6 #52

a six minute chokehold is not reasonable Quiet Em Dec 6 #53

Even in NYC the jury seems to be questioning if it was. nt kelly1mm Dec 6 #54

The jury was deadlocked Quiet Em Dec 6 #55

The result was that the top count was dismissed, no? Are you actually suggesting that guilty verdicts kelly1mm Dec 6 #57

Yes. But Penny was not found not guilty. Quiet Em Dec 6 #58

Agreed. Still the top count was dismissed (I argue as it should be) no? nt kelly1mm Dec 6 #59

I'm not comfortable playing armchair juror Quiet Em Dec 6 #60

I can just say that I believe Penny's actions were a reasonable defense of others. I believe there should not be a kelly1mm Dec 6 #61

Except nobody was harmed except Neely. Quiet Em Dec 6 #62

Again, physical contact and/or harm is NOT an element in a defense of others defense. nt kelly1mm Dec 6 #63

Penny's actions and use of force did not meet reasonable self defense standards Quiet Em Dec 6 #64

It seems that a NYC jury disagrees with you beyond a reasonable doubt. By the way, the kelly1mm Dec 6 #65

Again, the jury was deadlocked. Quiet Em Dec 6 #66

I think it's easy to see here how OJ got away with the murders SunImp Dec 6 #68

OJ's jury reached a verdict, Penny's jury is deadlocked. Quiet Em Dec 6 #69

He was found not guilty on Monday. By the entire jury. kelly1mm Dec 9 #81

Yup. Quiet Em Dec 9 #85

Interesting how so many cases of vigilantism against Blue_Tires Dec 7 #72

White guy kills a black guy Bettie Dec 6 #46

What was the size differential? GreenWave Dec 9 #84